Talk:Changeling

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Description[edit]

To consider the Grimm Fairy Tales reading of Snow White, the dwarfs do not have names to note primarily imbalances of the humors for medicine of the time. They, nevertheless function as a society of men of a foreign race by language of the time. Outside the frontier of Christendom if an attempted seal of baptism is personally placed over, "inept" to hold time by religious structure of a humane time. To see a face by artist's concept, a name is given, if a mother is given to intuit a malady so. We know by tendency that the dwarfs tend towards the mountains by their work, the elves of the variety. Difficult to say how universal infanticide would have been by illustrative scope of functionality by the time.

Congenital Factor[edit]

Demonic imps as the incubus could have been blamed for the conception of traditionally deformed children beyond a nature which would have been diagnosed considering conceptual photos of the demon stalking the crib are only conceptual.

The like concept conveyed through the books of Enoch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.44.178.73 (talk) 02:53, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled[edit]

Re: Salleman's request: the article needs cleaning up to improve layout, writing style (esp: formality) and grammar. A few references wouldn't hurt. The term "fae" needs linking and explaining. Exploding Boy 20:42, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC)

Copyvio[edit]

I have reverted the changes of an anonymous user -- see [1] -- because it was text copied from [2] in violation of copyright. FreplySpang (talk) 3 July 2005 13:09 (UTC)

Removed[edit]

Removed the following from the article:

In one Swedish changeling tale, the troll child grows up at a farm while the human child grows up among the trolls. Everyone advises the human mother to brutalize the changeling so that the trolls would change children once more. However, the woman refuses to treat the innocent but maladapted troll child cruelly and persists in treating it as if it was her own. In the end, her husband tries to burn the young troll, but the woman rescues it, so the man takes him on a walk to kill it in the forest. Somehow, he regrets his decision and saves the life of the troll. Suddenly, his own son returns and tells his father that his kindness broke the spell and liberated him. Every time someone tried to be cruel to the troll, his troll mother was about to treat the human child in the same manner. In another Swedish fairy tale (which is depicted by the image), a princess is kidnapped by trolls and replaced with their own offspring against the wishes of the troll mother. The changelings grow up with their new parents, and both become beautiful young females, but they find it hard to adapt. The human girl is disgusted by her future bridegroom, a troll prince, whereas the troll girl is bored by her life and by her dull human future groom. By coincidence, they both go astray into the forest upset with the conditions of their lives, and happen to pass each other without noticing it. The princess comes to the castle whereupon the queen immediately recognizes her, and the troll girl finds a troll woman who is cursing loudly as she works. The troll girl bursts out that the troll woman is much more fun than any other person she has ever seen, and her mother happily sees that her true daughter has returned. Both the human girl and the troll girl marry happily the very same day.

These entries are just not encyclopaedic enough; at the very least we need to give a name to these stories, and the entries need paring down and rewriting. Exploding Boy 01:41, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

Well, Exploding Boy, if tales like these aren't relevant, the article is neither. The changeling legend exists through this kind of tales. I am impressed with you Salleman. I added the tales, but you instantly found references when needed. Good work!--Wiglaf 08:18, 1 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

If you read what I wrote carefully you'll see that I never said the stories weren't relevant, just that the entries as they stood weren't encyclopaedic. Honestly. What is it with this article? People seem to ignore it completely until someone criticizes it. The cleanup tag was there for weeks and nobody bothered, and when I finally got around to doing something about it there's nothing but complaining. The entries still need cleaning up, by the way, since they seem to have been C&Pd wholesale with the simple addition of a link, which isn't really what was needed. Exploding Boy 08:24, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

Well, I have ignored your "cleanup tag" because I thought it unwarranted, and would rather leave it to YOU. If you really think the article needs cleanup, clean it up yourself.--Wiglaf 08:33, 1 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I did clean it up myself, and it was sorely needed. Do you read the article at all or just get upset when it's criticized? Now I suppose I'll have to clean up the section you and Salleman restored as well. Exploding Boy 08:36, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

No, but there are some people around at Wikipedia who seem to get a powertrip from adding cleanup tags on articles (I am not thereby saying that you're one of them). If you check the edit history, you'll see that I have restored nothing. Please, go ahead.--Wiglaf 08:39, 1 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Replacement people in modern literature and films[edit]

I have included this section - which is a stub - here as it covers a topic which relates indirectly to changelings. It requires some further development, and then could be a separate page. Jackiespeel 16:57, 2 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

references[edit]

I have added a few fact tags at the "skeptical" explanations of changelings, but those are not the only places where refs are needed. The whole article suffers from a lack of refs and while much of the stuff comes from folklore etc. there still needs to be some indication of where it is reported and by whom.

non-changeling "Changelings"[edit]

There's no need to discuss non-traditional uses (e.g. in science fiction) of the word "changeling" in this article, as that is adequately covered by the other uses redirect. RandomCritic 03:13, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Removed: "In the Star Trek series Deep Space Nine, chief security officer Odo is a changeling." as being misleading, and probably misinformed. The related DS9 wiki sites talk about the Star Trek shapechanging race called Changeling. Mourdrydd 05:27, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I was confused by these inclusions as well. There are still a batch of these in lists at the end of the article, including that Deep Space Nine episode. The so-called "shape-shifters" seem to have nothing to do with the definition of changeling given at the top of the article. Thank you, Wordreader (talk) 22:07, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

potential addition to literature list?[edit]

Magic Street by Orson Scott Card (Mack, child of the fairy Puck, is discovered abandoned in a plastic bag and raised in the human world.) 74.74.251.190 (talk) 00:54, 25 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Summer Knight" by Jim Butcher features several changeling characters (Ace, Fix, Meryl, and Lily) but they are not called changelings and are minor characters. 209.89.92.168 (talk) 05:05, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Removed sentence from the Ireland section[edit]

I removed the following:

In parts of Ireland, left handed people are sometimes thought to be changeling fae.{{Fact|date=March 2007}}

It has been tagged as needing a source since March, 2007. Since it is presented as a current belief, which frankly looks very unlikely, it does need a source. --Bonadea (talk) 09:16, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Second paragraph: sources from Supernatural[edit]

There is no fact for it and it's missing source. "Changelings were said to feed on their mothers and to leave odd bruises in the back of their necks as a result. The feeding process could take weeks, until the mother was drained dry. Anything or anyone that prohibited the Changeling's nutrition would be mercilessly killed. Simple charms, such as an inverted coat, were thought to ward them off. The best way to get rid of a changeling is to make them laugh. The parents of a changeling child will have no choice but to take back their baby and leave the real baby or child behind."--Elsan (talk) 02:52, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reaction to Asperger's syndrome?[edit]

This is more just speculation on my part, but does anyone notice that the traditional traits of many changelings seem to line up with the symptoms of Asperger's syndrome?68.164.0.242 (talk) 18:15, 24 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

that's already discussed in the article, along with a few other theorys —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.216.187.53 (talk) 06:39, 9 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Cleanup[edit]

This page has serious formatting errors. I don't know how to flag the page; does someone here know how? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.112.12.53 (talk) 06:19, 17 August 2008 (UTC) Why is "See also contemporary artists collective - www.changelings.com.au" included in the body of the article? Shouldn't it be in external links? 152.3.75.165 04:18, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I reorganized the page, the intro was way too long. I promise I DID NOT remove or change ANY information, but merely reorganized the format. I hope no one is offended. Brina700 04:17, 8 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Consider adding Keith Donohue's The Stolen Child to the literature listing.

What about the tales of the faery replacing infants with elderly and ailing faeries, so that the changeling child soon sickens and dies? This is the version I’ve heard most often and it’s also been posited that this form of the changeling myth was an early explanation for cot death or SIDS (sudden infant death syndrome).OzoneO 20:24, 8 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

one wonders why they steal babes, if it doesn't work out anyway? --Yak 13:09, Mar 15, 2004 (UTC)

I guess the reason is that our ancestors considered children born with Down's syndrome to be changelings. In this way changelings were a reality and the possibility of having one's child replaced was something that instilled fear. I know from the rural area in south central Sweden, where I grew up, that there was once a "changeling" in the neighbourhood who lived to an old age. Children have always been born with Down's syndrome and people needed a name for it. --Wiglaf 10:56, Mar 25, 2004 (CET)
I've heard that one reason trolls want to trade children is because they want the troll child to have a proper upbringing. Dustin Asby 06:28, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
In my experience from reading Scandinavian fairy tales for my daughter, the main reason is jealousy. In the fairy tales, the trolls are dark and swarthy and are fond of the blond beauty of human infants.--Wiglaf 21:55, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

In the story "The Corpse" from Mike Mignola's Hellboy, it is suggested that the Fair Folk, for an unexplained reason, can no longer reproduce, and thus must take human children and raise them. It is implied that a child raised among the Fair Folk from infancy would become one of them. I'm going to add "The Corpse" to the list of references to Changelings in literature as well. Marksman45 08:21, 3 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There probably should be a sentence or citation about Brood parasite in nature. Cuvtixo (talk) 01:15, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Brood Parasites-Cuckoos[edit]

Brood parasites are organisms that use the strategy of brood-parasitism, a kind of kleptoparasitism found among birds, fish or insects, involving the manipulation and use of host individuals either of the same (intraspecific brood-parasitism) or different species (interspecific brood-parasitism) to raise the young of the brood-parasite. This relieves the parasitic parent from the investment of rearing young or building nests, enabling them to spend more time foraging, producing offspring etc. Avian brood parasites ...This form of cuckoldry is taken a step further when females lay their eggs in the nests of other individuals. Intraspecific brood parasitism is seen in a number of duck species with females laying their eggs in the nests of others for example in the Goldeneye... Interspecific brood-parasites include the Old World cuckoos in Eurasia

Changelings in popular culture[edit]

The following comment was left on the article itself, and I'm moving it here:

Whoever is going to edit this, can somebody please define what changeling is in the movie "Changeling" directed by Clint Eastwood and starring Angelina Jolie? Much appreciated! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.25.201.127 (talk • contribs) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Claviola (talk • contribs) 00:39, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Changeling in the movie "Changeling" refers simply to the fact that her son was replaced by a different boy the police believed to be her son. It does not refer to the classic image of changeling in folklore, it just refers to the idea that a human child was replaced with something else, in this case another boy. 69.161.78.31 (talk) 22:22, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

William Butler Yeats' poem[edit]

I would suggest, if mentioning The Stolen Child at all, we should probably also reference the original, from which the title to the Keith Donohue novel was almost certainly taken. --24.141.226.244 (talk) 07:11, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stolen_Child

Keith Donohue's novel[edit]

I've requested a citation to support the claim that "In the book The Stolen Child, Keith Donohue talks about the life of a changeling from the point of view of two boys, one of whom was evidently autistic" - I've read the book and there is certainly no explicit claim in it that the character is autistic, so this would seem to me to be original research. I'll give it a month or so to see if anyone responds, and then delete the whole sentence ~dom Kaos~ (talk) 18:10, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just re-read the novel: the only reference to a person with autism is, in fact, about a previous incarnation rather than one of the two protagonists. I've removed the offending sentence ~dom Kaos~ (talk) 14:49, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

--The Changeling...not the movie with Angelina Jolie--

How can you not have added the movie The Changeling with George C. Scott to the pop culture references to 'changeling?' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.59.174.46 (talk) 21:40, 10 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Additional Meaning[edit]

As well as the fantasy meanings, "Changeling" is also used to describe a person substituted for a stillborn child. Such substitutions were usually made with a view to fraudulently establishing or maintaining a dynastic succession. For example, when James II of England's son James Francis Edward Stuart (who became known in later years as "The Old Pretender") was born there were widespread rumours that he was a changeling introduced into his mother's bed hidden in a warming pan. Such politically motivated rumours were spread to try and discredit the royal succession.

If someone can produce a verifiable reference for this "commonly known fact" - the additional meaning could be added. Wings Tanar (talk) 17:05, 18 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cutting[edit]

Perhaps the changeling myths of this time period reflect the feudal political structure, where inheritance is the only real way to gain personal or political power. A monarch gave the throne to his first surviving son at his own death. When there was any doubt to the legitimacy of the child, the power of the very state could be called into question and a fight for political power could arise. This inherent fear of war caused by political strife could have been mythologized.

Not only is this unsourced, it is by its own admission purely hypothetical. Goldfritha (talk) 03:24, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Undo purges to "In Popular Culture"[edit]

As per the title, the section Changelings in Popular Culture has been entirely purged twice (once in 2015 and the other in 2017) with little explanation other than contempt for trivia by the editors. I believe that the IPC sections in articles are one of the most iconic and unique (among encyclopedias) features of Wikipedia and an acknowledgment of the fact that the pop culture of today is what will be called "literary history" of the future. I think this is doubly important for seminal literary concepts that have become powerful metaphors whose meaning is enriched by every iteration, as is the case with Changeling.

Unless strongly opposed, I plan to restore the section and most of the old entries. I'll do my best to leave out the most tangential or irrelevant applications of the concept, but going by a quick skim, I'll be restoring more than I'll be leaving out.

I welcome discussion regarding this matter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maokun (talk • contribs) 13:37, 28 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In Ancient Persia[edit]

Herodotus (The Histories, 1.138) says this of the Persians

They say that no one has ever yet killed his father or mother; when such a thing has been done, it always turns out on inquest that the doer is shown to be a changeling or the fruit of adultery; for it is not to be believed (say they) that a son should kill his true parent.

See http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Hdt.+1.138&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0126

However, I'm not sure what is meant by changeling here, and it's probably about 2000 years older than any of the other material in the article as it was written around 430BC, so I'm not adding anything to the article.Housecarl (talk) 05:30, 2 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Aliens[edit]

Not good at reading 105.161.41.160 (talk) 14:52, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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