Talk:V-1 flying bomb

Detonation Mechanism

Under specifications, it says "Detonation Mechanism: 100". What does that mean? 100 what?Tsuka (talk) 07:38, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

No idea. Also the use of Amatol is unsourced - I think this ought to be Trialen. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:48, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

@Andy Dingley:: I've added an article on Trialen. Prioryman (talk) 22:47, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. I've an article on aluminised explosives in general I ought to upload. There was a stupid argument here (naval mines?) a while back on how they didn't exist. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:21, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

The number destroyed by interceptors

According to the Operation and effectiveness section, it was “about 1000”. But totting up the number as detailed by plane type later on in the article (Interceptors subsection) the number is far higher. Excluding Tempests, we have about 1300. The number destroyed by Tempests is hard to ascertain from the article (is the *total* 638?). So clearly “about 1000” is very wrong, even though it is referenced.

Also, it would be great to have a summary like this: xxxx were launched at English targets, of which xxxx were destroyed by interceptors and xxxx believed destroyed by anti-aircraft guns. Boscaswell talk 09:18, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Just under 2,000 V-1s (1,954 by the article's figures) were shot down by fighters, a startling 638 by the Tempest Vs of Nos.3, 56 and 486 (New Zealand) Squadrons alone. And 56 Squadron didn't even re-equip from Spitfires to Tempests until 6 July. (Though Mosquitos, with their long patrol endurance, night capability and very high speed in a shallow dive, did rather better than is commonly realised.) About 2,500 were shot down by the guns. In total about half of all the V-1s fired at London were destroyed by the Allied defences.Khamba Tendal (talk) 19:49, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Why did attacks on England stop in October 1944?

The introduction mentions: "At peak, more than one hundred V-1s a day were fired at south-east England, 9,521 in total, decreasing in number as sites were overrun until October 1944, when the last V-1 site in range of Britain was overrun by Allied forces." This is dubious. The launch sites at the Dutch coast (e.g. The Hague) were not liberated before 5 May 1945, so there must have been an additional reason for the V1 attacks on England to stop in October 1944. Gollem (talk) 13:53, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Because the launch sites at the Dutch coast weren't in easy range of London - they could only be used to attack London when extended range V-1s became available in February 1945.Nigel Ish (talk) 14:15, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

In that case there is something else wrong with the introduction, as it mentions: "... thousands of V-1 missiles launched into England were fired from launch facilities along the French (Pas-de-Calais) and Dutch coasts." By the way, the extended range V-1s were never used against England? As these came available 4 months after the last V-1 mentioned attack on England. Gollem (talk) 18:07, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

The extended range V-1s were launched against England from three sites in western Holland on 3 March 1945 - three more sites were aimed at Antwerp. Attacks continued until 28 March - 275 bombs were launched at England, of which 125 got as far as the British defences, which destroyed 94 bombs - only 13 reached London. (Basil Collier, The Defence of the United Kingdom pp. 394–395.Nigel Ish (talk) 18:36, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

In that case the part that mentions "... October 1944, when the last V-1 site in range of Britain was overrun by Allied forces" is wrong/misleading? Since with the extended-range V-1s new sites in Holland became in range of Britain and these were never overrun by Allied forces, but surrendered only when the war was over. Gollem (talk) 20:58, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

It could be written clearer, but there were three phases of V-1 attacks against Britain - the first was the attacks from France against London, which stopped when the advancing Allied forces overran the launch sites, the air-launched attacks, which ended in January, and the very small scale attacks by long range weapons in March 1945 - the October statement in the lede refers to the large scale attacks from France (and technically it is correct - they bases in France were the only land bases in range of England AT THE TIME - it took several more months for the long range V-1s to be developed and new launch sites aimed at Britain set up.Nigel Ish (talk) 21:39, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Please, translate feet into metric

The shorter range improved the accuracy of the V-1 which was six miles deviation per hundred miles of flight, the flight level was also reduced to around 3,000 ft.--Adûnâi (talk) 14:35, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Done. This article has some problems, as a German subject the primary units should be metric, it needs a review. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by) 18:30, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Deaths in London

If my understanding of the numbers is correct, a bit fewer than 10,000 V-1s caused about 25,000 deaths, meaning that an average of 2.5 deaths per bomb. That would seem to make the efficacy of the bomb fairly poor, at least in terms of people killed. (Damage to property being another matter.) Could someone source this information and add it to the article with the proper numbers? If it's there already, it's very well hidden, although I did find the figure of 9,521 total bobms in the lede. Shouldn't the death toll in London be in the lede as well? Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:40, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

I don't claim a complete understanding of the subject, but it is immediately apparent to me that of the (approx) 10,000 v1s launched at London, a good proportion were shot down before reaching their target. What you need is the number that actually exploded in the target area. Do the bomb maps cover this? I have only used them for bombs, etc. early in the war. And that would be WP:OR.

Where does the figure of 25,000 deaths come from? If you do a search on the Commonwealth War Graves site for civilian casualties from June 1944 through October 1944, you get 6,560 deaths - and just scanning a sample, they are in London and in the same format as civilians killed in their own home as you saw in the Blitz casualties. I make no claim that this piece of WP:OR is correct, but I think it raises a valid question. Remember that V2 casualties need to be accounted for. Also total V1 casualties would include significant numbers in Belgium, etc.ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 23:43, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

The 25,000 figure came from a TV documentary, so, of course, I did not accept it as fact, which is why I came to this article, where I was surprised not to find anything about deaths caused by V-1s -- hence my request. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:19, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

I note that the article tabulates 22,892 "casualties" - but that word is highly ambiguous, as for some it means killed, for others killed or wounded. I strongly suspect the latter. The article is extremely light on the results of the V1 - it does not even mention the worst result, the Guards Chapel, where 58 civilians and 63 military personnel were killed by a V1, with 20 seriously wounded civilians and 48 military. Other sources give a higher number of seriously wounded for the Guards Chapel- but it is very easy for a careless editor to stick in the word "woundedseriously". My source is Hitler's V-Weapons: An Official History of the Battle Against the V-1 and V-2 in WWII Frontline Books. I don't yet have a handle on how accurate this is, or have even worked out when exactly it was written (clearly some time shortly after the events), but I think casualty figures would be pretty good. This source says 2420 V1s landed in London - but there is no record of ones that exploded in rural areas. Clearly a bit more digging to do on sources, and the article is in need of some attention.ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 07:52, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Looking further in the same source, I see:
During the whole period 9,251 Flying Bombs were in operation, 5,890 crossed the coast, 2,563 reached the London area and 4,262 were destroyed. There were 2,420 incidents reported in the London Region and 3,403 incidents on land elsewhere. Casualties (Operational Figures): Killed: London – 5,375 Elsewhere – 462 Seriously injured and detained in hospital: London – 15,258 Elsewhere – 1,504 In addition to these figures, Service casualties reported were: Killed: London – 207 Elsewhere – 95 Seriously injured and detained in hospital: London – 280 Elsewhere – 197

I might get to look further at this source later today.ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 07:54, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

I have inserted some sourced figures on just London casualties within a new "Effect" section. I note that they do not match ThoughtIdRetired's. Whichever figures we go with, the overall casualties could do with adding. I have not changed the lead - it probably needs an effect paragraph where the current one on V-1s in Finland is. Which needs moving into the main article or deleting IMO. My thought was to get consensus on what we put in the article and then summarise it into the lead. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:05, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Collier (Appendix L) states total civilian casualties in the UK from V-1s of 6184 killed and 17981 seriously wounded - this does not include service casualties. He states that "about nine-tenth" were in the London Civil Defence Region.Nigel Ish (talk) 14:31, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Nigel Ish, checking, Atkinson cites Collier for his figures. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:07, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

I think the deaths and serious injuries figures now in the article (and discussed above) are closely related to the ones I have given above. What we do not know is the extent of rounding applied or any updating due to later research by other sources. I total my figures as 5,739 deaths (London and outside) and 17,239 seriously injured.
The article may benefit from details of the worst incident, the Guards Chapel, Wellington Barracks (18 Jun 1944) (which was hit during a service). The casualty figures for this are in the post above, but I note that the article on the chapel gives a different number of injured- but the figure I found was "seriously injured". I recollect hearing that it took 48 hours to dig the last of the survivors out of the rubble - may be worth searching for a good source if that is true.ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 15:36, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

The second volume of Ullrich's new biography of Hitler -- while obviously not the best source for this kind of information -- gives (p.435) 5,842 killed and 15,900 injured. The source cited is Overy, The Bombing War pp.192f. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:26, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

So, going to the original source, it says "During June, July and August 5,482 were killed and 15,900 injured, the highest figures since May 1941." Overy, Richard. The Bombing War (p. 193). Penguin Books Ltd. (Note the transposition of digits at some point - I have taken a cut and paste from an electronic book.) It is important that this is just 3 selected months. V1s continued to land at a lower rate after this. Looking back at the other source I have available, Hitler's V-Weapons An Official History. Frontline Books, the list of "serious flying bomb incidents" gives 2 in Sept 44, with deaths of 13 and 10; 4 in October, deaths 17, 12, 17, 10; 3 in November, deaths 18, 11, 12; 2 in December, deaths 13 and 26; 3 in January 1945, deaths 11, 14, 10 and one in March 1945 with 12 deaths. I have no idea what constitutes a "serious" incident. The point is that these numbers, whilst all within reach of each other, are not the same. Note that adding these "per incident" deaths to the 5,482 for the 3 busy months, gives a total 61 less than the overall total of 5,739 in Hitler's V Weapons. However, they are believably the same numbers with some corrections added at some point. Perhaps there were 30 or so incidents where only 2 people died, which didn't qualify as "serious". (All presuming my arithmetic is correct!!) I hope this is progress of some sort.ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 22:47, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Just to note, the transposition was Ullrich's error (or the typesetter's), not mine. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:50, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

It was always my suspicion that the error did not lie with a Wikipedia editor - interestingly you sometimes also find weird things with electronic books - though I have no idea how they muddle things up.ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 23:25, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Arado image incorrect

The arado carrying a V1 model is incorrect. It is stated to be the C version, and the wings and motors are correct, but the fuselage and cockpit is a clearly a 2 engined B version. If someone has a correct image could they change it please? Even if it's a drawing would be better than giving incorrect images

The image is correct, it is of a model in the Speyer museum. The caption makes no mention of which variant is modelled. If the model is incorrect then you will have to take that up with the curator of the museum. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 16:14, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Well then i will have to. Unless the model in the image is a special version with a b2 cockpit and c cuadruple engines made specifically to carry V-1's, the model is not correct. I will take it to the museum. Regards Juanal expert (talk) 10:21, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

I did find that every source agrees it was a c variant what would do the launch, and i have found a technical drawings that include the launching system. Anyways, no C versions were ever completed, even less a prototype for the air launch arado, so sources widely disagree on wich versioj was it, because it simply didn't exist. It was only a project. Juanal expert (talk) 10:47, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

I was going to remove the original image, but because the special nature of this version, i will aimply add my image next to it. Juanal expert (talk) 10:49, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Disposal

It would help perspective as to progress in dealing with the V-1 attacks on London if the date the first person who successfully defused a V-1, John Pilkington Hudson, were given. The date is not given in the wikipedia biography of JPH.Cloptonson (talk) 12:12, 17 July 2022 (UTC)