Talk:Tarkus

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Untitled[edit]

There's been a fair amount of editing regarding the storyline of the Tarkus suite within this article, much of which I would say is pure speculation. I'm reverting part of the article back to a previous version that is more in line with the general view of the suite, and will find some citations to back it up. Locrian 03:44, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

St. Marks?[edit]

"St. Marks church organ" gets a credit. It's used for Bach's Toccata and Fugue in F major, BWV 540 at the start of "The Only Way". But there is no indication of which St Mark's this was. One assumes it was somewhere in west London, within striking distance of Advision Studios, so the most likely one might have been St. Marks, Regents Park [1], which has a recently refurbished organ [2]. But other possibilities might be St Marks Church, Prince Albert Rd; St Mark's Coptic Orthodox Church; St Mark's Church, Hamilton Terrace; St Marks Church, Kennington; St Mark's Church, SW19 or even St Marks, Kensal Rise. The blogs and prog rock message boards seem to be of no help on this one. Perhaps Mr Emerson himself can remember? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:19, 20 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Progarchives says "The first Prog musician to record with a real pipe organ was probably Keith Emerson, playing the Royal Festival Hall organ for 'The Three Fates' (ELP debut album) and later the Flentrop Organ at St. Mark’s Church for ‘The Only Way’ (Tarkus album)." But I have no idea either whether that is a reliable source or whether the reference to Flentrop helps narrow it down. TJRC (talk) 21:49, 20 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I found that too! And the only connections between Flentrop and any St Marks that I could find were in US/Canada! But that might eventually help somehow (if it's reliable!) Martinevans123 (talk) 21:59, 20 March 2014 (UTC) ... but only three in London listed here, apparently[reply]
I have now messaged Keith Emerson via Facebook and he has very kindly replied. But his reply is confusing. He says it was indeed St. Marks, Allen Street (i.e. St Mark's Coptic Orthodox Church). But looking at the church's own website, before 1975 it seems that it was called St John's Presbyterian Church, and was home to a United Reformed Church congregation: [3]. It certainly had an organ and the organist was in fact John Tavener (who himself converted to Russian Orthodoxy in 1977) - Tavener stayed at St John's till 1973. But the album was recorded in January 1971 so am a bit confused. How can it have been called "St Mark's" in 1971? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:20, 23 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting, but I think we're getting into WP:OR territory here. A communication from Emerson, though presumably reliable, isn't a WP:RS for Wikipedia purposes, which requires a "reliable, published source". The forensic investigation of which organ was used in the recording is a good fit for a blog post somewhere, but not for being originally published in a Wikipedia article. TJRC (talk) 01:11, 25 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I was hoping Emerson's reply would lead to a published source? I wasn't intending to add his Facebook message to me as a reference. I appreciate what you say. But I'd still like to know and I think other readers would too. I'm very surprised that no-one seem to know. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:43, 25 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I missed this discussion. I saw the [citation needed] on "St Mark's church organ", found no citations, remembered "hey that's on the sleeve notes" and cited it. Lawd knows where my scratched to oblivion 1971 LP has gone, though. Emerson / ELP articles all need some TLC but it seems all the decent sources to improve them are offline - I could use Martyn Hanson's book on The Nice to improve that, although David O'List turns up every now and again to say "The Nice were MY band, the original audience came to see me and all the best music came from me waaaaaaaah". It was over 45 years ago, and he still hasn't quite let it go. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:34, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, yes, thanks for the History of British Rock Part XII, Threesie, but we're not trying ot write War and Peace here, are we. We're still just looking for a source for St Mark's Church, Kennington and I don't see one. And without one, I think that piped link has to go? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:46, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I've got this source that says "Keith plays it on the organ of St. Mark's church" and this source says similar. Probably have to ditch the pipelink, nobody has ever questioned which St. Mark's it was. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:51, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oh yes, they have! It was me last March, lol. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:01, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This is OR so it can't be put into the article, but I am going to be looking out for a print source confirming my theory. I did some research and I am willing to bet the "church organ" was the one located at what was then St. Mark's Church, North Audley Street, London W1 in Mayfair. This church and its organ had an interesting musical history as Benjamin Britten composed three pieces for it (not to be confused with a Festival Te Deum he composed for a different St. Mark's in Swindon), Marcel Dupre had recorded pieces on its organ that were released on Decca, and it also had a choir that released records on Decca. As of 1971 it also appears to have been putting on some kind of musical events. It was closed in 1974 and is now One Mayfair, an events venue (that is closing end of this month and a developer is going to do something else with it. The closed church has a really bare bones Wiki entry at One Mayfair Church that has the info that's easy to find on the web but does not say anything about the former musical histoy of the church, or its historic organ which was a large Rushworth and Dreaper that was moved to Holy Trinity, Brompton. It would make sense to use this organ since it was fairly close to the recording studios and would have been known to those musicians familiar with 20th century classical organists or who went to any recitals there. So, while like I said none of this can be put in right now due to no source, I will be keeping my eyes peeled for some confirming source. TheBlinkster (talk) 19:15, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Shame on you for even suggesting such blatant WP:OR! Yes, that sounds fascinating. Mayfair is only a short walk from Gosfield Street. I'll keep my eyes peeled too! Maybe a Rushworth and Dreaper expert could help out?? One Mayfair Church could certainly use a bit of expansion - hard to believe that a Grade I Listed building has such an atrocious article. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:55, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Does someone have access to: Emerson, Keith; Lake, Greg; Palmer, Carl (2021), Emerson, Lake & Palmer, London: Rocket88, ISBN 978-1910978641? Possibly there would be a info? Bullenwächter (talk) 09:08, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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