Talk:Berserker

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Speculative exaggeration?[edit]

I've read the piece by Liberman, cited at n.40[1], but can't see it as support for the related information in this article. In fact, he's quite dismissive of most assertions - here's his concluding paragraph:

"The study of berserks is based on an unsafe foundation. Serious research competes with wild guesses and cavalier attacks on the subject ... It may, therefore, be of some use to offer a short conclusion. At the end of the ninth century, some warriors were still called berserkir … They either resembled or were identical with ulfhednar (wolfcoats). Both groups roared and howled when they fought. They may have worn animal masks, but this need not be the reason they were called berserkir and ulfhednar. Despite the closeness of the words berserkir and ulfhednar, berserkr more probably means bareshirt (= fighting without armor) than bearshirt (= fighting with a bear mask/bearskin on). No evidence supports Snorri’s statement that ancient berwerks were ever looked upon as Odin’s associates. The berserks of the family sagas resembled the berserks of old only in name, and nothing in their behavior can be used for reconstituting the institutions of the past. At no time did berserks form unions, and, to become a berserk, no initiation was required. The way from elite troops to gangs can be demonstrated with some confidence. All the rest (cultic leagues, eating poisonous mushrooms, and so forth) is (science) fiction."

I wonder if the other sources for this article are just pulp history of the kind that exaggerates medieval Scandinavian practices, such as the blood eagle. Shtove 22:20, 12 June 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shtove (talkcontribs)

References

  1. ^ LIBERMAN, ANATOLY. “BERSERKS IN HISTORY AND LEGEND.” Russian History, vol. 32, no. 3/4, 2005, pp. 401–411. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/24663272. Accessed 12 June 2020.

While Liberman is right to describe a lot of modern writing about berserkers as ungrounded speculation, I think he dismisses the Odinic connection too quickly. We do know that Odin's name meant, roughly "frenzied one" or "rager" - he was specifically a god of battle frenzy and magic. It would be very surprising Norse warriors who cultivated battle frenzy did *not* associate themselves with Odin. Esr (talk) 11:26, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Norse-Centric?[edit]

Why are all these articles Norse-Centric? When the Norse are the least of them?120.29.109.137 (talk) 05:37, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Zerker (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 23:23, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Remove reenacter image[edit]

The photo of the reenactor with the bear on his head isn't very historical and unnecessary in this article. I am going to remove it unless someone can make a very good case for retaining it. 2403:5813:9C91:1:F3DE:27FF:BD2D:9D4F (talk) 11:01, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]