Talk:Joycelyn Elders

Untitled

Much of this article text is taken from the external link provided (at surgeongeneral.gov). Is this a copyvio? - Furrykef 06:53, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

unless otherwise indicated, info from .gov sites is public domain. RickK 06:55, Oct 1, 2004 (UTC)

Ah, right. Sorry. - Furrykef 21:11, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Quotes added on 8-1-06

These quotes look like possible libel to me, I'm going to remove them from the main page until someone can provide legitimate citations. --Breenius 04:56, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

• "I've heard Eric Clapner - I think it's a wonderful thing that Eric Clapner the musician is putting on this event...I like Eric Clapner!" (referring to Eric Clapton)
• "We can decide that we've got to keep the guns out of the hands of our children. We can make safer weapons. We can make safer bullets."
• "Our Medicaid system had to be developed by a white, male, slave owner!" (Medicaid was created on July 30, 1965, over a hundred years after the abolishment of slavery)
• "Sex with a child does not a pedophile make - it doesn't make the child a pedophile!"

The Eric Clapner quote is rather famous and was played repeatedly on the Rush Limbaugh show.

The "safer bullets, safer guns" quote was from a speech Elders gave at the National Press Club while she was sitting Surgeon General.

Here is the quote on Medicaid: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=990CE4DB163AF935A15751C0A962958260

The "pedophile" quote was not Elders. The quote is "Sexual contact with a child does not a pedophile make," and it comes from a book by Judith Levine entitled "Harmful To Minors: The Perils of Protecting Children From Sex." Elders wrote the foreword for this book and was confronted about it on the May 29, 2002 episode of the MSNBC show "Alan Keyes is Making Sense." Elders writing the foreword was interpreted to have endorsed the book's contents and was given the opportunity on the program to defend herself. The transcript can be found here: http://www.renewamerica.us/show/transcripts/02_05_29akims.htm

Also, December 7, 1993: During a speech at the National Press Club, US Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders says, "I do feel that we would markedly reduce our crime rate if drugs were legalized, but I don't know all the ramifications of this... I do feel that we need to do some studies. In some of the countries that have legalized drugs, they certainly have shown that there has been a reduction in their crime rate and that there has been no increase in the drug use rate."

She got into quite a bit of trouble over that one.

"Encouraging masturbation"

It is a distortion to say that she "encourag[ed] masturbation among young people", and it is an insult to her career to say that she was "most famous" for one little remark. Some very innocent and entirely proper comments were fanned up by ultra-right-wing wankers into the fictitious idea that she wanted to have mandatory group masturbation in high-school health classes, and wishy-washy Clinton caved in to the nonsense and demanded her resignation. I think she should have told him to fire her ass. Shorne 07:49, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I agree, except I do think it is, unfortunately, what she is best known for by the general public. That is indeed an insult to career, but it is not our job as Wikipedians to judge that in the article itself. I don't contest the edits you made, though, just pointing out that she probably is indeed most remembered for her ill-received remark. (Oddly enough, though, my political science teacher in college told this story, but somehow distorted "masturbation" into "anal sex". I watched his lectures through video tape, so I only met him twice, I think, so I wasn't there to correct him. I still regret not having sent him an e-mail of correction.) - Furrykef 22:25, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

You're probably right. I'm not trying to distort the facts. I do feel that "encouraging masturbation" is an exaggeration, at least in the case of that one remark, which was a lot tamer than it was made out to be. It's probably safe, and NPOV, to say that her outspoken comments on a variety of health-related issues attracted a lot of attention. Shorne 00:26, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Understood, and I agree. - Furrykef 03:00, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Is there a good way to find out what exactly Clinton said in his letter asking her to resign? I find the request for resignation over this "incident" to be much more shocking than the event itself (which was, after all, a direct answer to a direct question)

her last name

I just noticed, in this article, her name changes from Minnie Jocelyn Lee to Minnie Jocelyn Elders, with no explanation.

It might seem trivial, but did she ever marry anyone, at what time did this happen, and did his last name happen to be Elders?71.19.38.228 00:56, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Grammar Issue Within Quotation

"The number of Down’s Syndrome infants in Washington state in 1976 was 64% lower than it would have been without legal abortion." The correct term for the aforementioned syndrome is "Down Syndrome" not "Down's." Is this a misquotation or an error of Elder's?

A more important question to ask is "what does such a statement prove?"

There are also fewer scientists, medical doctors, lawyers, teachers, and engineers as a result of legal abortion.

Assuming that Elders made the statement, with or without the incorrect apostrophe, it may be appropriate to expand the article at this point to demonstrate her apparent lack of logical reasoning ability.

John Paul Parks (talk) 13:48, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Down Syndrome is commonly called Down's in the UK and other countries. In all, it was probably a misquote from over thirty years ago. And at any rate, it's not factually inaccurate. In the UK between 1989 and now, the abortion rate after a DS diagnosis has remained constant at 92%. Anyway, someone else called shenanigans and removed that unreferenced quote. 98.225.230.65 (talk) 09:43, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Burntsauce deletions of quotes

Quotes have been here for sometime, but it looks like Burntsauce think they needed to BE deleted. I think he(she) wants than moved (No feedback on this page for a major change). But rather move than continues to delete them. With out them Bill Clinton's actions are not clear Telecine Guy 23:07, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Quotes belong on Wikiquote. There is a reason for this, as quote sections like these (which are just lists of quotes) provide nothing in the way of encyclopedic context. If you want a specific quote to remain I highly advise you integrate it into the article with proper context or you will soon find it removed again. Burntsauce 20:12, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I highly suggest that you leave well enough alone, and remove the God complex from your brawny shoulders. The quotes add a sense of humanism and personal connection to this very brief article regarding Joycelyn as a person. 24.251.84.221 08:06, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

If someone's going to undo the work done in compiling these quotes, they had better cite a guideline or policy that says that the quotes are a no-no. Leadwind (talk) 01:19, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Quotes

• "How do you get rid of the trash? It's out there in society, it's going on every day...You can educate children an awful lot easier than you can get rid of the trash." - (LA Times interview)
• "We must stop this love affair with the fetus." - Austin, Texas Jan. 21, 1994
• "The number of Down’s Syndrome infants in Washington state in 1976 was 64% lower than it would have been without legal abortion."
• "Education, education, education. The only way we are going to get around [AIDS] is with education. We have no vaccine, we have no magic drug. All we've got is education."
• "As long as I was in Washington I never met anybody that I thought was good enough, who knew enough, or who loved enough to make sexual decisions for anybody else."

"We know that more than 70 to 80% of women masturbate, and 90% of men masturbate, and the rest lie."

• “Condoms will break, but I can sure you that vows of abstinence will break more easily than condoms.”

75.47.159.254 stop deleting stuff you don't like, if you want to make up your own stuff go to Conservapedia. Christian fundamentalists should know that by now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PrivateCitizen999999999 (talk • contribs) 11:30, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

References

lead

I summarized the article in the lead, which is what you're supposed to do. The lead should be able to stand alone as a concise summary of the article. Sometimes people just delete summaries in leads because they're redundant, but that's exactly what a lead should be: a redundant summary. Please see WP:LEAD, and next time you see an anemic lead, build it up. Leadwind (talk) 01:21, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Frame Up?

The article contains the following quotation,

"On December 15, 1993, around one week after making these comments, charges were filed against her son Kevin, for selling cocaine in an incident involving undercover officers, 4 months prior. Elders believes the incident was a frame-up and the timing of the charges was designed to embarrass her and the president."

It has been almost six years. Was Kevin found guilty of selling cocaine? If he was, then his arrest was no "frame up," but merely the proper exercise of law enforcement authority. We need follow up information here.

John Paul Parks (talk) 13:45, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

I found an article in TIME magazine which provides additional information, and I added a comment and citation.

John Paul Parks (talk) 14:03, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

I also found the published decision of the Arkansas Supreme Court on the Kevin Elders case, and I have added that information as well.

John Paul Parks (talk) 14:17, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

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