Talk:Andrei Tarkovsky

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Former good article nomineeAndrei Tarkovsky was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
February 16, 2008Good article nomineeNot listed

No subject[edit]

An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Andrei_Tarkovsky article:

  • Can link movie director: ...]], [[1932]] - [[December 28]], [[1986]]) was a [[Russia]]n movie director, writer, and actor. He is regarded as one of the most impor...
  • Can link classical education: ...t of the golden era of Soviet arts education. He received a classical education in [[Moscow]], studying [[Music]] and [[Arabic language|Ara... (link to section)
  • Can link real time: ...me and alter it. Unedited movie footage transcribes time in real time. (The speedy jump-cutting style that is prevalent in MTV vi... (link to section)
  • Can link the Second World War: ...[My Name is Ivan]] / [[Ivan's Childhood]]'' (1962) - Set in the Second World War, this is Tarkovsky's most conventional feature film, althou... (link to section)

Notes: The article text has not been changed in any way; Some of these suggestions may be wrong, some may be right.
Feedback: I like it, I hate it, Please don't link to — LinkBot 11:31, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Did Tarkovsky not die in 1986? Ashik-Kerib of 1988 is a tribute to his death.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.87.98.137 (talk) 20:35, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Date of death[edit]

Many Russian sources (google Андрей Тарковский родился) and German version point to December 29. --EugeneZelenko 03:43, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I've heard of the uncertanity around the date of Tarkovsky's death before. Someone recently edited it from December 28 to December 29. Searching for "tarkovsky december 28" and "tarkovsky december 29" in Google (without the quotation marks) nearly gives an equal number of results. Any ideas? If we do not know for sure, the article should at least say so. --JonasRH 15:14, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It seems to be uncertain, one reliable book on Tarkovsky says that he died in the night of the 28th to the 29th. On the other side, on the grave stone (see the picture in the article) it is clearly the 29th. So I take this as the official death date. Dassiebtekreuz (talk) 01:20, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tarkovsky template[edit]

I've put together a Tarkovsky template at User:Staecker/Template:Tarkovsky. It looks like:

Any comments before I stick in on the pages? Feel free to change it around if you have ideas. Staecker 18:29, 13 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No objections, so I'm putting it in. Staecker 18:04, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Concentrate[edit]

Does anyone know why Concentrate is no longer listed at imdb? Estrose 23:55, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was curious about this, so I sent them a message asking about it. But it might be related to this: http://ucalgary.ca/~tstronds/nostalghia.com/TheTopics/Marina_and_Alexandr.html (the script was never shot, a documentary was made but A.T/M.T didn't like how it turned out/was manipulated, so they didn't want to be credited?) 0cm 22:43, 26 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Concentrate (screenplay) was never-filmed and exists only as a screenplay, see the interview in the link above. Fragments of Concentrate were filmed many years later for a documentary. Dassiebtekreuz (talk) 14:46, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tarkovsky and Russia: Exile[edit]

The article says that Tarkovsky chose not to return to Russia in the final stage of his life. I don't think this is true. He was told by the Soviet authorities that he could not return while he was making Nostalgia. This forced rather than voluntary exile caused him immense pain as he was unable to see his family who were unable to leave the USSR. He also dearly loved Russia - as the movie Nostalgia shows - and talked himself about how the theme of that film - the yearning in the Russian heart for the homeland - suddenly became the central experience of his life while he was making it. The grief Tarkovsky felt about being cut off from home and family was immense. He didn't (and wouldn't have) voluntarily chosen never to see his loved ones again. ThePeg 2006

As I've read it, he was declared a "non-person", which might sound strange today, but in those days, not so much! But he also said at some point that he didn't want to return to his homeland now that they were ready to welcome him (he won the Lenin Prize in 1990, posthumously). My view is that he was bitter and hurt about the whole thing. I'm not sure about his family, did he have a big family to begin with (I know he grew up with his grandmother, mother and sister as his father abandoned them -- I've added a link that might be useful about this, I didn't recall if his son had joined him, so I guess that's a big issue!)? This article could use more info, but I'm almost afraid to touch it! XD 0cm 22:41, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
According to booklet to the Czech edition of Nostalghia, there were two reasons of Tarkovsky emigrating in 1984, (1) the intrigues of S. F. Bondarcuk against Nostalgia at Cannes 1983, and (2) the wish of his wife Larissa to stay abroad. He tried to get an official permission from Russian authorities for three year's stay abroad, but it was declined. 147.231.160.228 (talk) 10:17, 2 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It is not true that Tarkovsky's wife would join him in 1986 in Paris, she was with him all the time, it was his son and "grandmother" (his mother? Larisa's mother?) who were allowed abroad in fall 1986. 147.231.160.228 (talk) 10:17, 2 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Friendship with Sergei Parajanov[edit]

Maybe something could be added about his relationship with other filmmakers? Parajanov, for example, considered Tarkovsky a close friend and dedicated his last film to him (Ashik Kerib). Esn 08:53, 9 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Failed GA[edit]

Intro should summarize the article better, one FU image has no FUR rationale, entire sections don't have a ref. Sumoeagle179 (talk) 20:24, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Copy[edit]

This article appears to be primarily written by someone whose English is not their first language. Thus there's some curious word usage, some errors, and parts are hard to comprehend. It needs rewriting.

Also, there's some gaps in the timeline. Some sections make no logical sense, since there's missing information. It is unclear why he ended up in Italy, or whether or not he defected -- just as one example.

The whole article needs further attention from an English speaking expert. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.149.239.195 (talk • contribs) 14:25, 20 April 2008

He defected without making any official statemnet, but simply refused to return to the Soviet Union. He tried to stay away from politics and media to avoid risk of being attacked by the Soviets, and he knew what he was doing. He chose Europe, because he was censored several times during his career in the Soviet system, so he defected in pursuit of artistic and personal freedom. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.166.33.223 (talk) 23:13, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Greatest Director[edit]

Ingmar Bergman famously said, in admiration of Tarkovsky, “Tarkovsky for me is the greatest [of us all], the one who invented a new language, true to the nature of film, as it captures life as a reflection, life as a dream”. "The Solaris Effect" is that one can barely make any art, film or otherwise, without being influenced by Tarkovsky. What is the best place for this info in the article? EricDiesel (talk) 16:44, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As "The Solaris Effect" is a rather extrordinary claim I am not sure whether it should be included at all. Sure Tarkovsky was very important and very influential, but really, one can barely make any art, film or otherwise without Tarkovsky, that seems a little bit to strong. There could be a section on the influence Tarkovsky had, but I would not give to much weight to the Solaris effect, and concentrate more on the concrete influence he had on directors. Alexander Sokurov for example. Голубое сало/Blue Salo (talk) 16:58, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I gotta go give a lecture, so if you can hold off on deletes for a few hours, it would be great.
  • I will stick the Bergman quote in the existing section, recommend the Dillon book to you (I was using the expression "Solaris Effect" back in 1984), and hold off on putting the expression back in.
  • I will also work up some stuff on the social and political effects of Tarkovsky. If you look at the first few seconds of My Name is Ivan, or Ivan's childhood (a koo koo sound over the Soviet hammer and sickle icon), the big name actors en masse digging ditches in Andre Rublev, or think about what the beurocrat next to the rack of booze criticizing Burton for wasting funds on "just filming clouds", and realize who it is supposed to be (Brezhnev), you may understand why Tarkovsky is moe of the most daring of artists, unrelated to his skills as a film director.
I will take your suggestoin about Sokurov to heart. Wouldn't mind seeing some of his stuff on the big screen. LACMA just screened bondarchuk's eight hour War and Peace (must be on a big screen to view, same as tarkovsky) three times in six screeings, and I noticed the same individual audience members filled the house at each screening.
I am new, so your sugestions would be helpful. EricDiesel (talk) 17:13, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I see your point. So far there is no section on the influence Tarkovsky had on other filmmaker so we should surely add something. But we should also avoid giving to much weight to a single author, what your previous insertion did. I probably overreacted a little bit, the problem is that unfortunately it is quite common on Wikipedia for people to insert links to their favourite author into articles, without any regard for the article itself or the notability of the author.
Going over your Place in history section, there were several problems. The section title Place in history could be more neutral, something like "Influence on other film makers" would be much more appropriate.
Then "Tarkovsky is regarded by many as the greatest film maker of all time." should read "is widely considered as one of the greatest film makers of all time" - I guess one can say the latter for sure, but with the former it is less clear. Maybe Orson Welles or Ingmar Bergman or Jean Renoir or John Ford were greater.
"Ingmar Bergman said, Tarkovsky for me is the greatest [of us all], the one who invented a new language, true to the nature of film, as it captures life as a reflection, life as a dream” - quotes with a solid citation are good, but we should provide some context, especially here as Tarkovsky and Bergman have met several times.
"Professor and film historian Steven Dillon, in his book The Solaris Effect: Art & Artifice in Contemporary American Film, argues convincingly that all subsequent film was deeply influenced by the films of Tarkovsky." No need to refer specifically to his book, something like "film historian Steven Dillon claims that..." would suffice. Avoid words such as convincingly as it is rather judgemental. Also the claim that "subsequent film was deeply influenced" is a very strong claim, one should provide some context.
Having said, Steven Dillons Solaris Effect could be a valuable addition to the article, but other additions are more important, that is a dicussion of the concrete influence Tarkovsky had on filmmakers such as Sokurov, Bergman, Marker and so on. I guess Steven Dillons book provides plenty of references of his influence. So these are my thoughts, bascially all we need is to respect a Neutral point of view. Other than that, great if you could continue to contribute to this article. Голубое сало/Blue Salo (talk) 18:53, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I was surprised that there was no "influence of Tarkovsky on other stuff" section. Of course, this section would be a bottomless pit. In fact, he was so influential I wouldn't be surprised if Tarkovsky had an influence on stuff made before Tarkovsky was born (just kidding... but not exagerrating). I will get on it. Mind if I create an empty section header for editors to contribute under? EricDiesel (talk) 22:42, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You are correct in every respect regarding my conrib. On this topic, I got used to having 500 people forced to sit helplessly in front of me, while I pontificated for an hour or more, before a four hour film. I am usually more careful with sources when I write. I also redirected "the Solaris Effect" to Dillon's page, until I can dig up some stuff from the 1980's. I actually gave a talk entitled "The Solaris Effect" in about 1986-89 time period (I only remember the time because an audience member said I used the expression wrong, took over the lecture, and did a great job. He was Russian and also mentioned how fax machines were undermining Gobachev, so I am dating the talk by that comment. I can't imagine anything more fun than interactively contributing to a Tarkovsky article. I had volumes of lecture notes with sources, but my library and all of my papers burned down in the Santa Cruz Mountain fire last May... so I get to have all the fun over again. EricDiesel (talk) 23:16, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Read the footnotes about his origin. Even Dagestanis do not clialm that the family of T. that T. was of Dagestanian descent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.197.243.189 (talk) 21:58, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I respectfully disagree. In Russia this is a wellknown fact, and is widely cited in the literature on Tarkovsky, Furthermore, this ancestry is important for understanding why both Tarkovsky and his father Arseny studied Arabic, something very unusual to study for students in the Soviet Union. One should be careful here not to fall for the propaganda of some Russian nationalists who claim Tarkovsky as one of their own. In the end that is not the question anyway, as Tarkovsky was both Russian and Dagestani, and what matters is that he was a great artist who drew inspiration from many sources. And Tarkovksy himself was quite frank about this fact, in one interview with Cahier cinema, for example, he at length explained his family history and stated that his decision to study Arabic was influenced by his ancestry. Not sure about the year this interview was published. I remember the interview was conducted shortly before his death, but not sure about the publication date. Probably shortly afterwards, that is in 1986. 75.5.220.57 (talk) 05:36, 2 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

State of the article[edit]

It is a shame that this great director has an article that lacks so much details. We should in particular include a section on his filming philosophy and style. His book Sculpting in Time is an excellent source. I will add more details, time permitting, but all help is appreciated. 75.5.220.57 (talk) 17:53, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. The article does not leave one with the flavor of Tarkovsky. It does not distinguish his style enough to be able to differentiate him from any other common "great" director. PPdd (talk) 03:08, 1 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Suspect symbolism[edit]

I came across these two suspect lines

"Water, clouds, and reflections were used by him for its surreal beauty and photogenic value, as well as its symbolism, such as waves or the form of brooks or running water.[22]"(the source provided mentions nothing about symbolism).
"Bells and candles are also frequent symbols. These are symbols of film, sight and sound, and Tarkovsky's film frequently has themes of self reflection"

This is in stark contrast to what Tarkovsky himself said about his films;

"We can express our feelings regarding the world around us either by poetic or by descriptive means. I prefer to express myself metaphorically. Let me stress: metaphorically, not symbolically. A symbol contains within itself a definite meaning, certain intellectual formula, while metaphor is an image. An image possessing the same distinguishing features as the world it represents. An image — as opposed to a symbol — is indefinite in meaning. One cannot speak of the infinite world by applying tools that are definite and finite. We can analyse the formula that constitutes a symbol, while metaphor is a being-within-itself, it's a monomial. It falls apart at any attempt of touching it" http://people.ucalgary.ca/~tstronds/nostalghia.com/TheTopics/Symbols.html

I feel that the mention of symbols should be removed and the sentences be reworked to better reflect Tarkovsky's own veiws. But I want to know what other people feel about this or if they got any objections to my proposal before I change thing.FSAB (talk) 12:29, 25 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Camera witin a camera, Tarkovsky mistrust of Nykvist cf Yusev[edit]

I read in two NRS revival theater film notes (one might have been at Pacific Film Archive) that Tarkovsky did not trust Nykvyst and had a camera within a camera built to monitor him. I put this in the article without RS. If it is not correct, please revert my edit, and if it is correct, please add RS for it. PPdd (talk) 17:50, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge with Concentrate (screenplay)[edit]

The film is not notable on its own. JDDJS (talk) 01:53, 28 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think this is worth considering, as well as with Hoffmanniana. For that matter, we could also name other projects Tarkovsky was thinking about, such as the Temptation of St. Anthony. TarkovskyFanX957 (talk) 18:28, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge with Hoffmanniana[edit]

The film is not notable on its own. JDDJS (talk) 01:56, 28 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

question[edit]

should i watch the tarkovsky films with the subtitles? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:152:4300:C015:DC9D:CC6:F446:EAB5 (talk) 16:04, 18 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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"ideated"[edit]

We read that the inscription on his tombstone was "ideated" by his wife. Although I now find that the word does in fact exist, I had never come across it in my life before - I am a 66-year-old, fairly well-read native English-speaker - and to me it looks and sounds like a mistranslation from another language! Perhaps replace it with a more everyday, readily understood phrase such as "conceived" or "thought up"?

Fixed. Well, you could have do it yourself. Btw, we have a strategy to implant such "easter egg" words into articles to recruit possible editors. No such user (talk) 20:56, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

City Lights is not a silent film[edit]

Under Influences it says: "With the exception of City Lights, the list does not contain any films of the early silent era." But City Lights, being a sync-sound film from 1931, is technically not a silent film despite its lack of spoken dialogue, and especially is not one from the early silent era which I would say ended before the '20s at the very latest. Unless it means more like "early, silent" era rather than "early-silent" era. Even so, it is not a Silent film in the very strictest sense as it has sound. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.93.8.2 (talk) 15:59, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Can't seem to find Tarkovsky's remarks on Terminator[edit]

The source is "Мир и фильмы Андрея Тарковского. Сост. А. Сандлер. [Andey Tarkovsky's world and films] (in Russian). Moscow: Iskusstvo (Искусство). 1990. ISBN 978-81-7046-083-1." First, the book seems to have been published in 1991, not 1990. (https://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/3853440/; 1991 is also the year indicated on the book itself). But even putting that aside, the source does not refer to the exact page and I was unable to find even the mention of Terminator anywhere in the book. Can somebody verify this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marovaso (talk • contribs) 17:52, 15 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • I found a copy of the book (also 1991), there is nothing about The Terminator in it. His diaries also don't mention the movie or Cameron. I also failed to find the quoted passage in Russian (except for a 2019 publication which is obviously a translation from English). AveTory (talk) 18:30, 15 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • That is srange. You would think that someone would have quoted the Russian original by now. I was also unable to find the quote anytime earlier than 2009 and it seeme likely that Wikipedia article itself was the source. I am not saying that Tarkovsky was a snob or anything, but his warm-hearted words about Terminator seem kind of peculiar as it does not seem he would even have any interest in watching what was initially regarded as a pulpy, low-budget B-movie (just my assumption, perhaps I am wrong, I don't know). The first Terminator was not even that big of a hit, grossing only 38 million in NA. Anyway, I think a more valid source is in order. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marovaso (talk • contribs) 05:07, 16 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Well, Tarkovsky watched all kind of movies, including mainstream and B-movies (he even mentions Zombi 2 in his diaries which he hated, of course). His thoughts on The Terminator could've been originally published in a foreign paper and only then translated into Russian, but I can't trace neither the Russian nor English source. AveTory (talk) 11:24, 16 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Сознание (intellekt) - зеркало (mirror) отражающее законы (low) объективного Мира (teality)". Ленин.[edit]

Может ли неразбитое зеркало "изобразить" так как если разбитое ?

В фильме были кадры где учитель и пацан с гранатой. Весь фильм о "зеркале". Наверное минут через 15 нас от полного зала осталось меньше десятка человек.. Я вышел пораньше штобы увидеть лица всех кто мог остатьця. Ничего в них я не увидел.

Сейчас говорят о каком-то "ИИ". Штаты молчат. Может и у них пока нет чем могли бы похвалитьця. А может што все помалкивают .. Во-избежание.. Дали "АСИМО" мотоциклетному заводу для удивлений толп..

Реально - мы сами не поймём как обезьяны не мы. Фантастики с чипами в голове. Робот-полицейский. Робот и полицейский связанные одной цепью.. Не очень получаетця или ца ..

Есть какие-то надежды с NASA, c LAC, c RadioAstron.. Нужен 3D-computer. Алфёров незадолго до смерти сказал о проблемах. Я тоже согласен што работы - на мноогие годы. Век будет што час. Мне так видитца. Просто потомушто 3D-мозга нет. Наши нервные реакции быстры насколько быстры химические реакции как работы так и восстановления сил. А скорость ответных электромагнитных реакций электронов в антеннах и схемах смартфонов ? Вы сможете также быстро нарисовать галерею художественных полотен в режиме video ?? )))

176.59.195.73 (talk) 05:42, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Larisa Tarkovskaya[edit]

I recently created a page for Larisa Tarkovskaya, the second wife of Tarkovsky. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you, Thriley (talk) 02:48, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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