Talk:Great Pyramid of Giza

When was the record height surpassed?

When did the Great Pyramid of Giza cease to be the tallest building in the world? According to the infobox on this page, it was surpassed by Lincoln Cathedral in 1311. But where does this idea come from? On the Lincoln Cathedral page, any existing sources are weak, typically either coming from news articles (leading me to fears of WP:CITOGENESIS) or crappy trade books. I previously raised this issue in a talk page thread back in November 2020, to no resolution. I added a dubious tag in December 2020 that Maruf Hossain removed the following April, though that editor offered no source or resolution. I have since added it back. Tkbrett (✉) 02:24, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

There is nothing dubious about this statement regarding Lincoln Cathedral holding the title of the worlds tallest building. It is well recorded in texts of the period and subsequently. Lincoln cathedral was completed in 1311 with a spire on the central tower that gave it a total height of 525 feet. It is unknown if the builders knew they had surpassed the height of the great pyramid of Giza, but we were later able to show this was the case. The cathedral surpassed the height of the great pyramid of Giza by 44 feet from its original height of 481 feet. The spire was destroyed in a storm in 1548 and not rebuilt. This Lincoln cathedral held the title of the world’s tallest building for 237 years. The title was then reclaimed by the great pyramid of Giza, which held it until the completion of the Eiffel Tower in 1884. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.179.9.148 (talk) 09:57, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

"It is well recorded in texts of the period and subsequently." Then I'm sure you'll have no problem finding good sources to post here. Tkbrett (✉) 19:26, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

(“Thus”?)

The Great Pyramid of Giza never regained the top spot. By the time Lincoln’s spire collapsed, other European cathedrals were already taller than the Great Pyramid. Lincoln remained tallest structure “of all time” until 1884, and tallest building of all time till 1890. The Old Font (talk) 07:23, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Being a historian myself, I had a quick look in contemporary 14th and 15th century sources, but could not find any evidence for the 525 feet claim for Lincoln Cathedral. First of all there are many contradictions in dating the spires and also on when the central tower spire was destroyed. (1541, 1547, 1548). I would rate the 525 claim "very unlikely" at best. But let's start from the very accurate work by A.F. Kendrick in 1898 titled 'The Cathedral Church of Lincoln' [1]: "The tall spire of timber, covered with lead, which originally crowned this tower reached an altitude, it is said, of 525 feet; but this is doubtful."

On the height of the spires, it was noted: The height of these timber spires was 89 feet from the base to the ball, and another 12 feet to the top of the vane.. The central tower is claimed to be 271 feet, but this is from the top of the corner pinnacles. So the actual base from which the spire was built is more like 225 feet. This means the claim here is that spire of the central tower, built around 1311, was 300 feet in height (525ft=225ft+300ft). That is simply a preposterous claim, knowing the western tower spires (who survived 200 more years were 89 feet from base to the ball). 2001:1C02:1C04:CD00:6DF8:19F5:D35F:435C (talk) 11:33, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

List_of_tallest_structures_built_before_the_20th_century gives an overview over the tallest buildings in history with their sizes and completion dates. -- Syzygy (talk) 13:18, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

All of which is unsourced. Tkbrett (✉) 15:36, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Blowtorch visit inside the great Pyramid in 1698

For those interested in the history of the Pyramids I might recommend this book which was published in 1698. It was written by Dutch traveller Cornelis de Bruyn which visited the Pyramids and wrote a whole chapter about them, describing them in detail. He even takes a guided tour inside the great pyramid carrying a blowtorch and described its central hallway and more.

I also read contrasting information regarding the casting, as at one point he writes:

I will only speak of the greatest, as well as the most remarkable, because the other two – although the boldest of the two does not have to yield much to the one considered the greatest (which indeed she is, although some seem to doubt it) – are enclosed and cannot be climbed upon, so there is not much to say about them.

Which would make one think the casting was largely intact. However in his sketch he draws 2 pyramids which both appear worn and their casting not intact:

Semi-protected edit request on 22 July 2023

BoschA (talk) 08:53, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

It might be nice to add this sketch of the grand gallery (since the wiki has a section specifically devoted to the gallery) made in 1698 by Cornelis de Bruyn who visited the inside of the Great Pyramid on a guided tour, carrying a blowtorch. The sketch was made afterwards, from his own recollection.

Bruy004reiz03ill129

The digitzed version of the original book which contains this drawing can be found here.

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 16:34, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 August 2023

I wanted to add more info to egypt Vnnghghg (talk) 13:38, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:46, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Served as Khufus tomb.?.. Not accurate

The first line of this article states this pyramid “served as the tomb for Khufu”. Khufu was never found in this pyramid, nor has anyone been found there. This pyramid never “served” as a tomb. It is only speculation that it was built to be a tomb. It is, so far, certain that Khufu has not been found there.. May have been built as a tomb but never “served" as one. Mevsmyself2 (talk) 21:43, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

I agree. Melvinvk (talk) 15:27, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

This is WP:FRINGE; the article should not be changed. Furius (talk) 15:37, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Fringe? My comment? When modern science and theory is applied it would seem the pyramids were never built as tombs. Tombs are always found outside of pyramids. BUT HEY, I am not arguing that. What is a FACT is that no one found Khufu in the pyramid. NO body at all was inside the pyramid… The article should be clear. The pyramid was, thought to be built as Khufu’s tomb (that is what we are told by leading specialists), but it NEVER (for what ever reason) “served” as his tomb. Please DON'T try and use RIDICULE to discredit my comment, JUST USE FACTS! Otherwise you are using passive aggression (not facts and science) to propagate misinformation. It never, “served”. Leading specialists agree it was built for him, but never served. But even this agreed thought has not been proven. It is just the leading theory. Mevsmyself2 (talk) 00:35, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Who are those leading specialists and where has what you are saying been published? Hypnôs (talk) 00:57, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

In all major published works on, “The Great Pyramid” it is agreed to have been built by and for King Khufu.. Just read for yourself for a bout 3 seconds about The Great Pyramid. Who are they? Almost every egyptologist alive.. Very few disagree on this except for modern investigators who think it may not be a tomb. Why do you think they call it, “Khufu’s Pyramid”?? It is also very well known that Khufu has yet to be found and some think there is a chamber yet to be discovered where he lies.. This is basic Great Pyramid stuff published repeatedly all over the world. Mevsmyself2 (talk) 05:44, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Let me make it clearer, I'm not asking for your thoughts on that matter, but specific sources. On which pages of which publication is it stated that the pyramid never served as Khufu's tomb? Hypnôs (talk) 12:10, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

We need authoritative scholarship either way. The article currently states that it, "served as the tomb of pharaoh Khufu..." Where is the citation for that statement? The "Attribution to Khufu," section is nicely thorough, and leaves little room for dispute. The absence of a mummy or other funerary artifacts is what's at issue here. It was obviously intended for use as his tomb, but we can't just say that it did get used that way... and robbers took ALL the evidence - including the hint of any carving on the sarcophagus. It seems easy enough to say that it, "may have served as the tomb..."

Who knows. It may still serve as the tomb, if he's lurking in one of those big voids the ScanPyramids people are finding. Footleg (talk) 22:48, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

The fact remains that, as of 2024, despite millennia of searching, and despite what uncountable numbers of authors have written, there is not one iota of evidence that it ever served as a tomb, or was ever even designed as a tomb, for Khufu or anyone else. If we quote authors who say it was a tomb, we must also balance it with a statement that this is merely their supposition, assumption or belief, not something supported by any actual evidence. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 23:19, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Seriously? The presence of a stone sarcophagus in the pyramid, the fact that the pyramids of two centuries later have entire books' worth of funerary spells inscribed on their walls, and that every pyramid including Khufu's had a temple at its foot and the funerary rituals of pyramid temples from two centuries later are extensively documented constitute "not one iota of evidence" that the Great Pyramid was "ever even designed as a tomb"? A. Parrot (talk) 00:33, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Why are all measurements in cubits?

? 217.102.149.3 (talk) 18:58, 30 March 2024 (UTC)