Talk:Durham University

Objection -- reputation and rankings section

Is there any reason why this section is inordinately long compared to, say, Cambridge? Propose it is heavily trimmed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.47.175.213 (talk) 03:17, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

The section in the Cambridge article is missing a lot of information – there's virtually nothing about national rankings, for example – and would need to be expanded to bring it up to Good Article standard. Robminchin (talk) 07:08, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

FRSA

'2 Fellows of the Royal Society of Arts.' So what? Fellowship of the RSA is no kind of academic qualification at all – it admits you to a rather good place for lunch in Central London. As it happens, I'm a Life Fellow of the RSA, but I wouldn't dream of sticking 'FRSA' after my name – that kind of thing is just for people who like post-nominals. Kranf (talk) 15:51, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Academic Year

Is it worth mentioning that the academic year ran along ecclesiastical lines in the past, with terms beginning on a Thursday morning, and ending at lunchtime on a Wednesday? Collections also started on the Thursday of Epiphany Term. Freshers' Week would effectively begin on the Sunday evening preceding term, with most events running Monday - Wednesday. This was certainly the case as late as the early 1990s. Illuminatusds; talk 10:53, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Endowment

The endowment figure is followed by "exclusive of colleges", which was added here in 2010. Is this correct? Unlike Oxford and Cambridge, the university accounts include all but two colleges. The accounts have a note 24 on Connected charitable institutions, which includes five college trusts, with a total value just under £3M, but that value is much lower than the university endowments and does not necessarily relate to endowments. TSventon (talk) 02:09, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

I think it's correct, in that endowments held by the independent colleges or the college trusts are not included in the university endowment. Those endowments may be small, or even zero, but it's probably worth including for the sake of accuracy. Robminchin (talk) 05:24, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

I would say "exclusive of independent colleges" as 15 of 17 colleges are included in the university accounts. I would ignore the Connected charitable institutions, which are not all college related, as they are small and I would expect that where universities have linked charities we would normally include or exclude them based on whether they are included in the university accounts. Apologies for the delay in replying as I have been busy over Christmas. TSventon (talk) 14:49, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

That would seem reasonable. Robminchin (talk) 20:51, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

The connected charities included in the accounts notes are only those that are not required to file separate accounts/ registered as separate charities so the likes of University College Trust , St Hild and St Bede Trust, Caedmon/Ceolfrid Trust as well as various JCRs, and other trusts such as the Ruth First Education Trust or DPET would not be included in the connected charities disclosure so it isn't correct to assume it is just the two independent colleges that are not included in the endowment figures. Some of these will be small admittedly but there are others than have endowments of a few million. Allialliw (talk) 08:48, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Allialliw, my thinking is that what needs to be noted about Durham is that there are independent colleges, which are not included. Other universities are likely to have associated charities and student unions/ JCRs, which may or may not be included in their accounts depending on the circumstances in each case.

I also haven't seen evidence that college charities have substantial endowments. St Hild and St Bede Trust has £8.6M, but only a small proportion of its spending goes to Hild Bede College. University College Trust has £15K in endowment funds, and the Caedmon/Ceolfrid Trust does not mention endowments. Ruth First Education Trust and Durham Palestine Educational Trust don't seem to be connected to individual colleges.

Pinging Robminchin and EmyRussell for their thoughts. TSventon (talk) 00:43, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Agree that the St Hilda and St Bede trust isn't really connected to the college. It looks like it was formed when the college joined the university, presumably to continue other activities in the diocese that the university wasn't taking on – its charitable aims are much broader than being a college trust. The only maintained college trust I've been able to find that isn't reported as a connected charity is the University College trust. Its endowment is very small, but I guess it could sometimes make a difference in the rinsing of the final decimal place.

However, we can't simply say 'exclusive of colleges' if any endowments for the connected charity college trusts (of which the are five according to the accounts) are being reported as part of the university endowment, while 'exclusive of independent colleges' is accurate at the level to which we are giving the endowment. I don't think including students' union endowments (and JCRs that aren't part of the university framework are legally students' unions), or the other various charities that give scholarships but aren't controlled by the university or its colleges, in with university endowments is a good idea. Robminchin (talk) 04:48, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

I am not too familiar with the independent colleges of Durham and how they are run so I am happy to refer this judgement to those more well versed on their financial structures. However, you do raise a good point regarding how substantive these endowments are and whether they'd be large enough to make a significant impact on the overall value.EmyRussell (talk) 12:42, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

References