Talk:Philip III of France

old comment

Someone saw fit to change the way I set the opening lines here. I did it here (and elsewhere) to make it easier on the eyes to digest the facts because the multitude of words, interspersed with coloration, is hard to absorb.... DW

Format

Does anybody else find it redundant to begin an article as "X [ordinal] of [Kingdom] ... was the King of [Kingdom]"? Srnec 22:26, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

His name in standard usage is Philip III of France, not Philip III. Michael Sanders 13:58, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

"of France" cannot be considered part of his name. That was just Philip. However, that requires disambiguation in most (but not all) contexts and so we have the epithet "the Bold" and the ordinal "III." Because the ordinal is meaningless without an indicator of his title, "of France" is added. This has nothing to do with his "name." My point about the redundancy is still relevant. There is no ambiguity in: "Philip III (died 1285), called the Bold, was the King of France from 1270 to his death." One can know exactly who he is and what he is called from that opening line and it doesn't insult one's intelligence. Srnec 19:21, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Srnec, besides we use the same thing in other peoples articles, for example: Bill Clinton begins William Jefferson Clinton. So why can't Philip III of France begin just Philip III? Carl Logan 19:31, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Because that's Clinton's formal name. The bold text is meant to show the accepted scholarly name. Otherwise, I could (for example) alter introductory name of Marie Antoinette to Maria Johanna Josepha Antonia, for example. So far as I understand it, the bold text introduction is meant to show the name the article uses as the 'real' name. So, in this case, he is not 'Philip III' (there are other Philip IIIs), he is 'Philip III of France'. He is never referred to as 'Philip III' unless already disambiguated as 'Philip III of France'. Michael Sanders 19:39, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

But he can be disambiguated many ways and in some contexts no disambiguation from "Philip III" would be needed. Why can't "Philip III, King of France" be his "scholarly" name, for instance? What does "Marie Antoinette" have to do with anything? That's her name. It is precisely my point that "of France" is not a part of Philip's name and need not be treated as such. Srnec 20:27, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Descendents of Phillip III

The article on Isabella of Aragon says she and Phillip III had 4 sons (Louis, Phillip, Robert, and Charles), that Louis was born in 1264, and that she died in 1271.

The article on Phillip III of France says he had 3 sons (Louis, Phillip, and Charles) by his 1st wife, Isabella of Aragon, and 3 children (Louis, Blanche, and Margaret) by his 2nd wife, Marie de Brabant. Robert isn't mentioned at all, which is unusual, since Wikipedia articles on royalty usually llist even the stillborns.

It further states that Phillip's firstborn Louis was born in 1266 and died in May 1276 - which is the same month that Marie gave birth to Phillip's second son named Louis. This is a pretty remarkable coincidence.

What year was the first Louis born? Is there any evidence of how/why he Louis died? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.82.249.253 (talk) 13:55, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Question about Charles, Count of Valois

Hello,

Philip III of France has a son who was the count of Anjou and Valois. His name is Charles III of Anjou & I of Valois. However, it says so in Counts and Dukes of Anjou. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cmach7 (talk • contribs) 14:19, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

He is commonly known as Charles, Count of Valois.[1] Emphasis on Anjou is an inaccurate representation. --Vrok (talk) 17:09, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Philip III of France/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Gog the Mild (talk · contribs) 20:25, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

• "File:Miniature Philippe III Courronement.jpg" needs a US PD tag.
• "File:Livre des faiz monseigneur saint Loys - BNF Fr2829 f82r (procession funèbre de Louis IX).jpg", likewise.
• "File:MariaofBrabantMarriage.jpg" and again.--I have no idea what US PD tag is. I have never worked with pictures, images, etc.
• The main body of the article should give his birth date.--Done.

• "on 25 August the king died" Upper case K.--Done.
• "they decided on Mos Teutonicus." Could you provide an in line translation please.--Done.
• "the caliph of Tunis". Upper case C.--Done.
• "and made foremost tribute to the deceased" I think you mean 'paid', not "made"; and what is foremost tribute?--Removed foremost. Changed "made" to "paid".
• "In fact, he would follow in his father's footsteps" No need to say "in fact"; this is an encyclopedia, everything is cited, everything is a fact.--Done.
• "re-inact" → 'reenact'.--Done.
• "References": page ranges should be seperated by en dashes, not hyphens.--Done.
• "References": references to more than one page should be rendered 'pp.', not "p.".--Done.
• "but the terms were rejected by Roger-Bernard." What terms were these? Ones proposed by James?--Removed. Source gave no further information.
• Link County of Foix at first mention.--Done.
• Remove all of the duplinks.--Done.
• "Philip then proceeded on a campaign to deliberately devastate and depopulate the County of Foix." What does "deliberately" add? I assume their is no suggestion that he may have devastated and depopulated the county accidentally?--Done.
• "Henry's widow Blanche was also receiving marriage proposals for Joan from England and Aragon as well." You don't need "also" and "as well". Delete one.--Done.
• "between Philip III and Blanche of Artois, arranged the marriage between a son of Philip III". There is no need for the regnal numbers.--Done.
• "a reference to king Philip IV of France." Upper case K.--Done
• "The success of the rebellion and invasion led to ..." What invasion? It hasn't previously been mentioned.--Fixed.
• "county of Alençon" 1. Upper case C in both lead and main body 2. Wikilink in both lead and main body.--Done.
• "Philip III of France in 1284 responded". 1. Responded to what? 2. "Philip III of France" → 'Philip'.--Done.
• {{sfn|Cárdenas|2014|p=?}}: Can you provide the page number?--Replaced source.
• It is normal in the biographies on monarchs to provide a summary of historians' views of the monarch and their reign.--That may take some time.

It shouldn't. The information needed will be in the sources you have already used. Looking at articles I have recently reviewed, see the last paragraph of Abd al-Malik I (Samanid emir) for a minimal effort. Or the Legacy section of Yusuf I of Granada, although that is an FA, you don't need that much here.

That's it for a quick first read through. Let me know what you think about my comments and I'll have another run through. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:44, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Did a few things. Replaced Cardenas, sorry about that. I do not have any experience in terms of pictures, images, etc. So I do not know what a "US PD tag" is. Thanks. --Kansas Bear (talk) 08:08, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Click on the image. then click on "More details", then "Edit" the Commons page. It will have a {{PD-Art-100}} tag. Replace this with {{PD-Art|PD-old-100-1923}} and check that what this give you is accurate.--Done.

Looking good. Just this and a sentence or two on legacy to do. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:18, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Was there anything else needing done? Have I missed anything? --Kansas Bear (talk) 03:55, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Apologies Kansas Bear, I thought that we were still waiting for a Legacy section. Rereading:

• "From that moment on, Pierre de La Brosse". 1. Briefly introduce Brosse, 2. link him. 3. lower case l.--Done.
• Link archbishop of Rouen.--Done.
• "Sultan of Tunis"; "Caliph of Tunis." Was he both?--Done.
• "Jewish strepiti (chanting too loud)". I am not sure abut this, but should that be 'chanting too loudly'?--Done.
• Link Marie of Brabant, Queen of France.--Done.
• Remove duplicate links - there are at least half a dozen.--I hope I found them all. Does the infobox count?.

I removed the last two for you.

No. The lead, the infobox, the image captions and the main body of the article each count as seperate for this purpose.

• Why does "mos Teutonicus" have an upper case M?--Done.
• "he is seen as a negative personality". 1. I am not sure what this means. 2. Negative personally or negative in his overall reign over France?--Removed.

That's it I think. Could you check my copy editing? Gog the Mild (talk) 12:06, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

No apology needed. It was clear that you were very busy. --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:23, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Kansas Bear, nice work. A good little article. Promoting. However, note that Philip's second wife is referred to as Mary in "Aragonese Crusade and death" and Marie in "Marriage and children". Gog the Mild (talk) 18:56, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Got it. I would bet anything Fawtier calls her Mary, which is probably why I wrote it "Mary". Thank you sir! --Kansas Bear (talk) 19:01, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed