Talk:Formosa (disambiguation)

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Taiwan

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On 6 August 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Formosa. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Ethimology[edit]

Should this just be a redirect to Taiwan, or is there a reason to have a separate article? --Brion VIBBER

Isn't "formosa" Portuguese, not Spanish? -- Zoe

Yup... I'm just going to make this page a redirect until told otherwise. --Brion VIBBER

Actually, old Spanish also had the word, during the transition when F became H in many words (Farina->Harina, Fumo->Humo, etc). The Argentie province of Formosa is named after the old spanish word. Mariano(t/c) 09:51, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is not true. The argentine province is named Formosa because it is in the exact antipodes of the island, and so it derives from portuguese. Check out the map at Antipodes. When the Spanish people went to the New World, spanish already used hermosa exclusively. And old spanish for hermosa was fermosa not formosa. 84.90.18.136 22:43, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

sorry, but there is no real evidence to support such nonsense, btw: formōsa > fermosa > formosa --Shmi

Perhaps it is nonsense, but citing the etymology of fermosa/formosa is equally nonsense. If it is Hermosa in Spanish, it is completely irrelevant that it is etymologically related to Formosa. The question is, why did the Spanish use Formosa instead of Hermosa?

Bathrobe 01:03, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Because the word in Spanish was Fermosa, see my message above. Several words starting with F mutated into H. Royal Spanish Dictionary --Mariano(t/c) 15:41, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So the question is, why did Fermosa mutate into Formosa?

Bathrobe 01:28, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That I don't know, probably just speach deformation; I was clearing out why I was saying it was an Old Spanish word. --Mariano(t/c) 14:17, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you really want to talk linguistics, you need a better justification than "speech deformation".

Bathrobe 23:38, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I never claimed the Spanish version over the Portuguese; I was trying to bring some light on why would the Spanish use such a word. We could especulate on a conquistador from Galicia, a later Portuguese deformation, or plainly Portuguese name; I simply don't know.

I can give you a couple of absolutelly non-encyclopedic sources that give the original Spanish name of the Argentine city of Formosa as Vuelta Fermosa[1][2][3][4] named by Juan de Ayolas.

But there seams to be a connection between words 'fermosa' and 'formosa' in Portugues; I think Formosa used to be Fermosa[5][6].

Good luck, --Mariano(t/c) 12:15, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Disambig Taiwan[edit]

Should the Formosas on those ship articles be disambiguated as [[Taiwan|Formosa]] or just replace [[Formosa]] with [[Taiwan]]? Any reason not to or to do so? --Menchi 17:37, Aug 9, 2003 (UTC)

Change it to Taiwan. --Jiang

The ship articles tend to use contemporaneous names, and when the Japanese controlled it, it was "Formosa". It would be a bit jarring for some to read that the "US Navy shelled enemy installations on Taiwan" ("we were at war with Taiwan!?"), but aside from that moment of confusion, I think it's OK either way. Stan 05:34, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Do [[Taiwan|Formosa]]. --Kaihsu 13:59, 21 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Stick to historical names for the sake of accuracy. A-giau 03:50, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

'non-native name'[edit]

I've deleted 'non-native name'. I do not believe there is any need to flag that this is a 'non-native' name. As usual with Chinese names, the problem seems to lie in a perception that the use of a non-Chinese name for something that is part of China is a violation of national sovereignty. Even if it is unquestionably accepted by most Chinese, it is arguably an extreme position and does not need to be unnecessarily emphasised.

Bathrobe 02:56, 6 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Formosa moved to Formosa (disambiguation)[edit]

I have boldly moved this page to Formosa (disambiguation), and turned Formosa into a redirect to Taiwan. The reason for this is that, as I understand it, Taiwan is by some way the most common meaning for 'Formosa' - if someone uses that name, they are most probably referring to Taiwan. It also brings it into line with other old names for Asian locations on Wikipedia, which are almost always redirects to the current name rather than disambiguation pages - see, for example, Peking, Ceylon and Siam. If you disagree with this move, please discuss it below. Terraxos (talk) 19:37, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 6 August 2022[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. per discussion consensus. This was a close one, with 4 opposed and 3 in favor of the move. However, when examined in light of the prior discussion, most participants found the status quo to be most persuasive, with arguments in favor of PTOPIC remaining as the island holding most sway. This was similar to the prior RfD, and did not overall change that consensus. It can be revisited in the future just as with any RM. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Shibbolethink ^(♔ ^♕) 01:03, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Formosa (disambiguation) → Formosa – Formosa is the name of several historical entities with no clear primary topic. Currently Formosa redirects to Geography of Taiwan, which is not the primary topic for what is more of a historical term than a geographical one. Note there was a recent RFD discussion where the outcome was to keep the target at the current place, but there was some support to move the dab page to the base name. Vpab15 (talk) 20:40, 6 August 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 16:30, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging @Matt Smith:,@TartarTorte:,@Kusma: Vpab15 (talk) 21:47, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Taiwan has been notified of this discussion. Vpab15 (talk) 21:49, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Disambiguation has been notified of this discussion. Vpab15 (talk) 21:50, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I have difficulties understanding the proposed move. Could you please explain why the current content of Formosa (disambiguation) is not optimal? Matt Smith (talk) 08:22, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The proposal is to move the disambiguation to the base name (ie. to Formosa). The content would not be changed. Vpab15 (talk) 08:41, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Is the disambiguation page causing problems? Matt Smith (talk) 13:40, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No, it isn't. It is the current redirect at Formosa that might cause problems to readers who are not searching for an article about the Geography of Taiwan. For example, a reader might be looking for the Republic of Formosa or Spanish Formosa. The proposal would move the disambiguation page to Formosa and get rid of the current redirect. Vpab15 (talk) 14:07, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I see. I think the request should have been keeping Formosa (disambiguation) as is and redirecting Formosa to the disambiguation page instead, because a disambiguation page needs the (disambiguation) suffix at the end of the page title.

Incidentally, my suggestion about the redirection does not imply my support for such a redirection. I'm just suggesting how the request should have been written instead, based on your explanation. Matt Smith (talk) 16:45, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No, disambiguation pages only have (disambiguation) in them if there is a primary topic. Compare mercury. —Kusma (talk) 16:49, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. Thank you. Matt Smith (talk) 02:54, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:PTOPIC. Vpab15 (talk) 11:08, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The daily average pageviews of Geography of Taiwan, Republic of Formosa, and Taiwan under Japanese rule are fairly close to one another, suggesting no WP:PRIMARYTOPIC from among that group. Additionally, since sources don't often use "Formosa" to refer to the present-day island of Taiwan, I don't think we can necessarily assume that someone searching for simply "Formosa" is looking for information about the island rather than one of the historical polities. Consequently, I think it would be best for this DAB page to hold the primary title. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 14:40, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The former name of the island is the primary topic, so the redirect is appropriate. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:52, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, I think the island is the primary topic. Clickstream data for the dab, Republic of Formosa or Spanish Formosa doesn't strongly indicate that people don't get what they are looking for. —Kusma (talk) 16:26, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support There are a number of other "Formosa" which get more coverage these days than the former name for Taiwan. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 02:58, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, I suggest keeping the disambiguation page as is because the Formosa page can be written as an article (e.g. Chinese example) in the future. --Matt Smith (talk) 03:00, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as it principally refers to the island, and this was already confirmed by the RfD process. Dekimasuよ! 13:59, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.