Talk:History of the Italian Republic

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Rampantism?[edit]

What on earth is "Rampantism". It's not an English word. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rob625 (talk • contribs) 10:46, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Links to "Gladio"[edit]

..can you say "conspiracy theory"? That the Ordine Nuovo attacks were perpetrated by neofascists who tried to pin them to the communist party, does not make this a covert CIA operation. Until you present some proof to the opposite (not including the 30-year old Soviet forgery of the non-existant "supplement B" to the Field Manual 30-31), allegations about Gladio connections with Ordine Nuovo are just hot air. 193.92.81.11 00:51, 17 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please refer to Wikipedia:NPOV dispute: "Then, under this new section, clearly and exactly explain which part of the article does not seem to have a NPOV and why. Make some suggestions as to how one can improve the article. Be active and bold in improving the article." The US State disclaimer you have put totally admits on the existence of Gladio, it only denies two assassinations in Greece and a military manual. Now, I'm sure you will understand why the US State Dept is not exactly the most neutral source for this kind of stuff. I advise you to read or find someone to translate you this [1] Repubblica article which back-up claims in this article. It is a well known historical fact, proven by investigation by judge Felice Casson and others, that Gladio has engaged in false flag attacks in Italy. I don't know exactly what you mean by a "conspiracy theory", because I don't think that Italian victims of the Piazza Fontana bombing or the 1980 Bologna massacre think it's "just a theory". The Repubblica link that is provided here and in the main-text of the article also give links to the Italian Commission on Terrorism report and the original juridical sentences. You may also consulte these documents. CQFD. Tazmaniacs 14:48, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]


The following is a corroboration of some edits made by and provided by User:Turrican:

Most of the material is from the book "Killing Hope" by William Blum.

The ten million letters:

  • New York Times, 16 March to 18 April 1948
  • Howard K. Smith, pp.198-219
  • W.E. Daughterty and M. Janowitz "A Psychological Warfare Casebook", pp. 319-26
  • Holdt and van de Velde, pp. 159-205
  • E.E. Martinez and E.A. Suchman, "Letters from America and the 1948 Elections in Italy", The Public Opinion Quarterly (Princeton University), Spring 1950, pp. 111-25

The forgery of PCI letters:

  • CIA memorandum to the Forty Committee, published in CIA - the Pike Report, pp. 204-205

The CIA financial support for the DC:

  • "The CIA" by Stephen Goode, p. 45, and "The Armies of Ignorance: The Rise of the American Intelligence Empire" by William R. Corson, pp. 298-9

Conspiracy theories[edit]

From this page, it seems that most of the history of the Italian Republic was a conspiracy. While I agree that there are still a lot of unsolved episodes and mysteries, this is totally unbalanced as well as, frankly, ridiculous and unworthy of wikipedia.Giordaano 13:35, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I repeat : this page is ridiculous. 60 years of Italian history seem to consist only of Tazmaniac's pet theories about Gladio. No economy, no culture, no social developments. Conspiracies, secret agents, false flag attacks. The page, as it is, is hopeless. (Giordaano, 13 May 2007)

It sounds more like a PCI history of the Italian Republic. Historical compromise? This was an issue that was very important to the PCI itself (which was actually factionalized on this issue; not necessarily a bad thing), not to the history of the Italian Republic. Intangible2.0 23:32, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This article didn't even mention Alcide De Gasperi (I have introduced his name, at least; a couple of paragraphs on his political action would be a minimum). On the other hand, people like Negri, Scalzone etc etc are quoted repeatedly. This, is, of course, ridiculous.Giordaano 11:42, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that the entire article warrants the WP:NPOV tag that I have placed above it because it should deal with the history of the entire nation of Italy after 1945 and not just almost exclusively with political violence (eg it mentiones Italy's membership of the EU, of which it is a founding member, only in passing). Wikimam 02:10, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Biased POV in 1948 elections[edit]

Quote The 1948 general election was influenced by the United States as part of their ongoing effort to fight communism ... The PCI itself was accused of being funded by Moscow and the Cominform

Without quoting any sources this article states that the US influenced the 1948 Italian elections and that the CIA accused the PCI of being funded by Moscow. I am not knowledgeable enough about postwar Italy but this piece about the Marshall plan and many other sources say that the PCI was funded by Stalin to the tune of some 10 million US$ a month - in its rendering and omission this article is clearly not NPOV

"No Communist party outside the Soviet bloc depended more on Soviet funding over the years than the PCI did." Riva, Valerio. Oro da Mosca: i finanziamenti sovietici al PCI dalla Rivoluzione d'ottobre al crollo dell'URSS.

The same lack of NPOV is evident in related articles such as the one about Palmiro_Togliatti Wikimam 03:15, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Since no action was undertaken I have taken the liberty of changing the 3rd paragraph dealing with the Italian elections of March 1948 to be more balanced and I also quoted a few sources some of which do need further verification; The claim that Moscow funded the PCI for $10m a month (more than 100 million United_States_dollar in todays dollars) is made by a CIA agent and a reporter and I don't consider these sources strong enough to quote them in the text. I've also replaced the reference to the Czechoslovak coup from the 4th to the 3rd paragraph and added the months of the coup, the NSA document and the elections to illustrate the timing of events and the very short time window under which these events played out sequentially. Since this wikipedia item deals with arguably the very fist cold war election, the first NSA act and the first covert CIA action I think it deserves more attention than I can give it. and certainly more than it has received previously. Wikimam 07:12, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This page is ridiculous[edit]

OK, I will repeat it: this page is ridiculous. 60 years of Italian history seem to consist only of someone's pet theories about Gladio. No economy, no culture, no social developments. Conspiracies, secret agents, false flag attacks. The page, as it is, is hopeless.

It would be better to delete it, and open a special chapter under "conspiracies".Giordaano 11:57, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Second Republic[edit]

Italian Second Republic doesn't exist because Italian Constitution remains the same since 1948! Only when a constituent assembly will draft a new constitution, we can talk about a "second republic". Killer4979 17:44, 28 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Everyone in Italy talks about the death of the "Prima Repubblica" with the collapse of traditional political parties, the disappearance of the DC and PSI, the emergence of Berlusconi, the Communists morphing into "Democrats" etc etc

Where does it say that, in order to have a "Second Republic", you have to change the Constitution ?Giordaano (talk) 13:23, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

First, Second, Third, Fourth,..., Republic are not political, but juridical terms! It doesn't matter any political change or people talks. For example, you should look at Fifth French Republic, started with Fifth Republican Contitution in October 1958, or Second German Constitution, that's been the same one since May 1949.Killer4979 (talk) 20:57, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The French "Fifth Republic" is also a political definition. Look at the French 1958 Constitution : it doesn't mention the term "Fifth Republic" at all.
Nor was the "Third Reich" a legal term. These are all political definitions.Giordaano (talk) 13:03, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

More importantly: Prodi is out of Government, Berlusconi is in again... shouldn't someone (not me, of course) try to reflect this in the article ? or, if no one cares, shouldn't it be just deleted ? Giordaano (talk) 13:07, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've not said the Constitution of 1958 contains a reference to the term "Fifth Republic", but this Constitution is the French Fifth Republic's. It's not the same thing! This term is used by jurists and it's the only important thing when you're using this term (that's juridical, not political!). I agree with the fact that "Third Reich" is a political term, not juridical (I've not said! I've spoken about the Second German Republic!). Killer4979 (talk) 19:38, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think you would be at odds in finding any legal text which refers to the present French Republic as the "Fifth Republic". I stand to be corrected, of course.Giordaano (talk) 10:00, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Only a few examples of (Italian) jurists speaking about "Fifth French Republic": Guido Neppi Modona and Alfonso Di Giovine, Sabino Cassese, Paolo Grossi, Guglielmo Negri, Fulvio Pastore, Rino Casella, Lucio Pegoraro and Angelo Rinella. I also look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_France. Killer4979 (talk) 20:48, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Everyone talks about the French "Fifth Republic", including jurists.
What I mean, is that there is no legal text in which the French Republic is defined or even mentioned as the "Fifth Republic"
"Fifth Republic" is a political definition, exactly like "Second Republic" for Italy. By the way, I'm sure you will find many Italian jurists who use the term "Second Republic". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Giordaano (talk • contribs) 11:21, 18 December 2008 (UTC) Giordaano (talk) 11:23, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

First (Second, Third,...) Republic means "institutional asset on a constitution (legislative, executive and judiciary pewers)". These terms are used by constitutional doctrine. I repeat... if you look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_France, you'll find five republican constitutions and five republican regimes (a partial exception only for Third Republic). Speaking about Italy, "Mani Pulite" and new parties are not constitutional (fundamental!) changes... constitutional (fundamental) rules are not changed. Killer4979 (talk) 12:15, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I meant... "institutional asset of three fundamental powers based on a constitution"...Killer4979 (talk) 22:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

History of Italian Republic must be the History of Italian Republic, here is the History of Italian Terorrismus. One part must be transferred in Years of lead (Italy) who is Terrorismus in Italy--Il Moderato (talk) 13:12, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]


My advice : delete, and expand History of Italy. Giordaano (talk) 11:22, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have edited somehow the first part of the article. As I said, the article is very, very poorly written, and is in need of a complete revision. Since no one seems to care, I will do it, but slowly, one part after the other. Will take some time Giordaano (talk) 10:08, 29 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Postwar occupation[edit]

Why wasn't Italy subjected to Allied occupation after the war? Brutannica (talk) 03:07, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Of course Italy was occupied (in whole or in part) during and after the war, starting from July 1943 and technically until the 1947 Paris Peace treaty. Yes, there should be some talk in the article of the AMG (Allied Military Government) and its policies ... but, there are so many aspects which should be treated at least superficially, and which are not mentioned...Giordaano (talk) 10:13, 29 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:Grabage in Pozzuoli 2008.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion[edit]

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latest history events[edit]

That single short sentence describing that "There is a now a Technocracy in charge" or whatever is insufficient. Can someone with knowledge of the details fill in the huge blanks? Like, when is the "Republic" going to hold elections again? Chadlupkes (talk) 18:18, 30 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Requested move 9 December 2021[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. (non-admin closure) Turnagra (talk) 09:19, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

History of the Italian Republic → History of Italy (1946–present) – I think this is a better format for this article. Interstellarity (talk) 00:09, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • But why should this article's title be changed? That is still not an argument for why this article should be renamed. In what way is the proposed title better than the current title? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 16:52, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – without a better rationale, it's hard to see why a move to a title requiring parenthetical disambiguation would be preferred. Dicklyon (talk) 03:20, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – was there an Italian republic before 1946? From 1861 to 1946, Italy was a kingdom. Before 1861, Italy was broken up into different countries. GoodDay (talk) 06:23, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

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