Talk:False flag

Gulf of Tonkin Incident

Why in the world is the Gulf of Tonkin NOT included as an example of a false flag operation? Methinks there are some US government shills crawling all over this place.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.93.22.81 (talk) 05:20, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Add more examples, change the format, or create a new page exclusively for a list of examples.

I think the page could improve greatly, by having at least a couple sections that mimic the "examples" section that are in the spanish version of this page.

There there is a list of examples like this: 1930 - USA did a false flag operation in vietnam. 1940 - Rusia did a false flag operation on England.

Etc etc....

Conspiracy theories

Since it's notable as part of conspiracy theory stories (it allows to justify the lack of evidence for extraordinary claims with secrecy, plausible deniability and the point that if it existed in history it must also be true there), black op and this article would benefit from some related information. There were previous unsatisfactory attempts like the use of original research or undue prominence. At current time no mention remains. Some of the sources in previous mentions appear usable, others not... —PaleoNeonate – 23:46, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Adding: I don't propose listing particular conspiracy theories, but having a short summary of a reliable source that stresses the fact that it's a common justifying feature of conspiracy theory narratives. —PaleoNeonate – 23:53, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

I agree that this is sorely needed. The following text has been multiply deleted without a proper discussion of consensus. It is well sourced:

"The term is popular amongst conspiracy theory promoters in referring to covert operations of various governments and cabals. DolyaIskrina (talk) 22:22, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

The sentence wasn't deleted, it was moved to the "Civilian usage" section. Rauisuchian (talk) 04:15, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Ah thanks. I hadn't seen that. It's an odd heading, isn't it? "Civilian usage". Some editors seem to want this page to be about a naval/military phrase, when the term is currently mostly used by political commentators. I would propose changing that heading to "Popularity amongst conspiracy theorists" DolyaIskrina (talk) 21:56, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

References

Additional examples of US False Flag Ops

How is it there are no examples of US false flag operations between the Operation Northwoods of 1963 and the Russian invasion of Ukraine? Are there no other examples of US government abuses?

From the Wiki Page on 2001 Anthrax Attacks: Immediately after the anthrax attacks, White House officials pressured FBI Director Robert Mueller to publicly blame al-Qaeda following the September 11 attacks. During the president's morning intelligence briefings, Mueller was "beaten up" for not producing proof that the killer spores were the handiwork of Osama bin Laden, according to a former aide. "They really wanted to blame somebody in the Middle East," the retired senior FBI official stated. The FBI knew early on that the anthrax used was of a consistency requiring sophisticated equipment and was unlikely to have been produced in "some cave".

How about Democrats and Clinton Campaign and their involvement with the Steele Dossier to blame Putin for election interference specifically accusing collusion with Donald Trump to 'steal' the election from Hillary Clinton?

The FBI creating and orchestrating the Governor Whitmer kidnapping plot to blame domestic terrorist in effort to justify their existence and further their funding and domestic surveillance powers?

The examples are many. 2601:603:4880:8160:2197:933D:6DEC:5F6E (talk) 20:31, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Pressure to find evidence to blame al-Qaeda is not a false flag attack. For the other two, you need reliable sources that explicitly call them false flag attacks, per WP:V. - LuckyLouie (talk) 21:18, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

No NATO or US false flags?

There's so many US & NATO false flags. Why the silence? Silence that verges on censorship? I mean, if an editor adds US/NATO false flags, like:

• Kermit Roosevelt's CIA used terror-false flag ops to topple Mossadegh's Iranian government. Heck, the CIA admitted it paid Iranians in the 1950′s to pose as Communists and stage bombings: https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/world/mideast/041600iran-cia-index.html

• Gulf of Tonkin. NSA admits it lied about the North Vietnamese firing on US vessels to facilitate war: https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB132/press20051201.htm

Would these get scrubbed by overly sensitive US editors? I hope not Pounamuknight (talk) 05:30, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

You may want to get WP:CONSENSUS on the Talk pages of CIA activities in Iran and Gulf of Tonkin incident for calling them 'false flag attacks'. If a preponderance of reliable sources explicitly refer to them as false flag attacks and agree on this point, we'd be obliged to summarize that agreement in those articles, as well as this one. - LuckyLouie (talk) 13:57, 28 April 2024 (UTC)