Talk:Filmi

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First Elvis Presley record[edit]

The first Elvis Presley record was in 1954. Presley died in 1977. I have a hard time believing that Presley was "on the horizon" for film music in the 1970s. -- ESP 20:53 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Indian movies started aping the King in mid 60s. - Kesava 07:30 03 Sep 2003 (UTC)

'hero and heroine runiing around the trees to express their love' is NOT my opinion. It is what you observe, if you see atleast one Indian movie. We can as well go for a poll to find out if the claim is true. Also as the italicized paragraph says, song and dance cannot be just separated. - Kesava 12:43 03 Sep 2003 (UTC)

[1] "1980s and early 1990s witnessed hero and heroine of the movie running around trees to express their love". This is the equivalent of describing "Chicago" as a movie in which prisoners sing and dance in elaborate costumes all the time even when faced with suffering and pain. The crux of the matter is that running around trees is the background and is not of importance. It is like stating that movies in India are made by exploiting child labour and with very poor pay. True but does not belong here in this section. Song picturization typically need to have a setting. They typically are discos, stage shows, public places - (streets, parks, beaches, campuses) forests, fantasy land, closed spaces (homes/offices etc, not very popular for obvious reasons) or MTV style backgroundless/ computer generated. "Running around trees" is a poor description of this. Check the wikipedia section describing Hollywood. It does not describe it as a place that produces movies with very poor story lines and bloated budgets depending on violence, nudity and of late comic book heroes that are driven entirely by special effects.

[2] "Songs of late 1990s generally feature a family dance on a wedding night or a the lead family celebrating an outdoor picnic."

You are talking about 2 Sooraj Barjatya movies here. You are using it to describe a decade of film making.

[3] "Nagesh Kukunoor, a young Indian film maker, captures the spirit of movies of this decade in his movie Bollywood Calling"

Personal disgression. Again this does not belong here. Please keep in mind whether you like it or not you are writing part of an encyclopedia

[4] "(Most of the Indians are forced to watch the songs in a cinema whenever they want to re-listen, as they do not have access to music systems. Thus Indians show little disticntion between the music and dance of a song.)"

I am hearing this for the first time. They dont have access to music systems ?? I bought a radio for 10 Rs. and tape recorders are as cheap as 200 Rs. Indians are perfectly capable of distinguishing between sight and sound.

[5] "It is what you observe, if you see atleast one Indian movie." Is Sholay a good enough counter example.

[1] But if more than 800 of 1000 movies realeased a year feature "running around trees"(RaT) kind of songs, we are to conclude that filmi music is predominantly RaT kind. Further most of the Indian songs do not aid in the narration of the story. (As you have said they are only seen as a safegaurd.)

[2] If there is something new in the songs of 1990s, it is "family songs". It is not just Sooraj Barajatya's movies, but a host of other film makers used this new safegaurd to add value to their movies in 1990s. e.g:- DDLJ, Kya Kehna etc....(i'm sure i can provide much better examples in a week's time.)

[3] Bollywood is more or less what Nagesh Kukunoor shows in Bollywood Calling. That is an open secret.

[4] And a Rs.10/- radio cannot play Rahman's music to perfection. Nor can most of the rickshaw wallahs distinguish between a playback singer and the hero. I agree that times are changing. But that is still the case.

[5] I take back my words...atleast one movie. I can give you many more counter examples. The point is, It is not that there are no sensible songs made. It is that most of the songs made are insensible.

- Kesava 06:00 07 Sep 2003 UTC.

[1] RAT is a cliche. As appropriate as describing Hollywood as sex and sf peddling house. They dont belong to an encyc but to a personal column. As an exercise sit through any successful movie or any of the big hits of the past decade. What is the percentage of RATs u see ? Also RAT is a derogatory term unsuitable here. If the background setting is a jungle or park it is called RAT. If its a disco or public places (like streets) it does not qualify as RAT though there is very little difference between the two. You can watch the top 10 videos in India currently and check how many of them are RAT. RAT is only an overblown cliche. Your description gives the impression that RAT constitutes at least 50% of all Hindi songs. Off hand the only RAT I can think of is "Gazab ka hai din" QSQT 1988.

[2] I dont recall any family song in DDLJ. Havent watched Kya kehna. If you say that this was the trend of the 1990s you should be able to reel off examples off the cuff. As far as I am concerned the big change is the songs are more expensive with techno and such stuff as surround sound. The trend started with Oye Oye and AR Rahman. Then there is the trend of remixes and pop songs but they dont belong to filmi music.

[3] True. But only as far as the 80s go. But it is a farce and would be the description of how to put together a flop (90% of the movies flop). It is a given that an industry is described by its best selling products. At best BC describes a Manmohan Desai 80s movie in the most extreme possible fashion (that was the intention of the movie).

[4] Nor can a Rs.10000 music system. The argument that people can afford cinema tickets but no radio or taperecorder is in itself fallacious (in Bombay tickets exceed Rs.100). Please drop this line of argument. Rickshawallas are smarter than you think. Mohd Rafi and Kishore Kumar collections have been selling for ages and yes rickshawallas buy them too.

[5] See [1]

[1] RaT might be an overblown cliche. But saying that "Indian movies are musical" is nothing but euphemism. Music in musicals often assist in narration. Indian songs hardly do that.

[2] "Mehandi laga ke rakhna" is wedding/family song.

[4] An mp3 player costs around Rs.7000/-. Rickshaw pullers definitely dont go to balcony for Rs.100/- ! Also there are hundreds of cinemas in rural india charging around Rs.10/- per movie. and the masses of South India like to believe that their matinee idols Chiranjeevi and Rajnikanth do everything by themselves although they know that a singer called SP Balasubramanyam sings for them.

[6] Most of the Indian blockbusters have great music. That proves that Indians revisit the cinemas to enjoy the music, for reasons whatsoever.

-Kesava 11:23 09 sep 2003 UTC

Two pages combined[edit]

TUF-KAT combined the two filmi pages (filmi and filmi music) and I reworked the result.

I think this is the OUTLINE of a good article, but I'm not enough of a musician to write it. The sections on music directors, playback singers, and lyricists are highly Bollywood-centric and need to be opened up to material from other regional cinemas, as well as expanded enormously.

The article also needs more info on musical styles.

I request help from the many people who know more than I do. I know you're out there :)

Zora 08:52, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Lyricists[edit]

Some kind person -- I'm blanking on the name -- worked on the lyricist section, adding a few names and a lament that lyrics had gone downhill since the glory years. I've rewritten the para for style, and also tried to step back a bit from the condemnation of recent lyrics. As I've been told myself, it's not Wikipedia's place to issue aesthetic judgments. But it is true enough that many people feel that lyrics aren't as poetic as they once were.

Surely there are some modern lyricsts who ought to be mentioned. Zora 17:30, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Suggestions[edit]

The "original research" tag should be removed. The topic relates with popular culture, and there are not many scholarly publications to be cited in that field. The material has to be compiled from various sources. It is something that many of the contributors must have experienced personally. --Vikramsingh 23:26, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Another suggestion. It should be "Filmi music" not just "Filmi". "Filmi" is an adjective. --Vikramsingh 23:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Recent edits[edit]

Someone edited the article to read that Mohammed Rafi is the greatest male playback singer ever. WP doesn't make such judgments. Someone else inserted what read like an ad for a singer called Yesudas. I removed the judgment and the ad. I don't recall seeing this singer's name, though it's true that I don't always scan the movie credits thoroughly.

It's perfectly OK to quote other people making the judgments, if they're well-known music critics or film reviewers. If the Rafi fan can find people to quote re "he's the greatest," we can insert the quotes. However, Kishore Kumar and Mukesh should get equal time :) Zora 12:59, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

NPOV[edit]

The first line of this article says that filmi music is about music of Indian cinema. But the article that follows is anything but about Indian cinema. The entire content of the article concentrates purely on Hindi film music and doesnt even mention film music of other regions in India. This is a glaring case of NPOV violation. If there is anybody actively involved in editing this article, please correct the article to adhere to WP:NPOV. I will be adding an NPOV tag now. Once the article is in better shape and truly reflects what it is supposed to, please feel free to remove the tag. Sarvagnya 09:18, 23 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Savagnya, it's a matter of people writing about what they know. Do you want me writing about Kannada film music even though I know nothing about it? Instead of just slapping a notice up and expecting other people to fix it, how about trying to redress the imbalance yourself? Zora 18:31, 23 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Article name[edit]

I checked the New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians and "Filmi" is an okay title in line with their usage. Hekerui (talk) 10:23, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest the title of the article be changed to 'Filmy' instead because in several articles on Bombay cinema and the book on 'Bombay cinema' written by Ranjani Majumdar, there is a clear formulation of the 'filmy' music and culture. So, the more popular search entry would be 'filmy music' I believe. Noopur28 (talk) 08:29, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Plagiarism[edit]

I don't know, if it is useful to give an example in this section, but one example is the song 'Koi Mil Gaya' from the movie 'Kuch Kuch Hota Hai' being heavily inspired by 'Take That Look Off Your Face' by Andrew Lloyd Webber. If it was paid for I don't know.. atarax42 01:16, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Request to change the title of this article[edit]

The word "filmi" is a Hindi language coinage (derived from the English word "film) and the usage of the term does not apply to the entire body of music composed for Indian cinema. Tamilians and other South Indians do not use the term "filmi" to refer to the music of their films. The Wikipedia pages of composers of South Indian film soundtracks (such as Ilaiyaraja, AR Rahman, Deva, Vidyasagar, Yuvan Shankar Raja, Harris Jayaraj, GV Prakash Kumar, Devi Sri Prasad, Hiphop Tamizha, Anirudh Ravichander, etc.) do not refer to those composers as "filmi composers".

The title of this article should be changed to "Indian Film Music", "Indian Movie Music" or "Indian Cinema Music". The use of such English language terms would be more applicable for pan-India usage since English is the de facto link language of India rather than Hindi. Imposition of Hindi language terms by a Hindi speaking majority in a multi-lingual nation is tantamount to imperialism and such a majoritarian behaviour which disregards the variety of languages spoken in our country does not reflect the spirit of our democracy. Anirudh131819 (talk) 09:31, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In this regard, the title "Film Soundtrack in Indian Cinema" will also be a good option since there is a Wikipedia page titled Soundtrack wherein the definition of 'soundtrack' applies to the music composed for films, television series, etc. Moreover the said article also places emphasis on the genre of "musicals" in Western film which refers to the genre in which songs and music are used in a film narrative. Anirudh131819 (talk) 09:49, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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