Talk:Qawaali

Is there a way to change the spelling of the title from "Qawaali" to "Qawwali", which is the standard spelling?

Hmmm. There's a MOVE tab at the top of the interface. I've used that once, successfully, but I just tried it for this article and it wouldn't let me. It's time to call for SUPERADMININSTRATORPERSON! Zora 02:49, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Short answer: Wikipedia:How to rename (move) a page.

Long answer: in the easiest case scenario one simply clicks "Move this page" and types in a new title. This transfers the edit history to the new title, so that the record of all the work by past editors is not lost. If there is an existing article at the new title that must be deleted for the move to happen.

Unfortunately, right now, when I try to delete the Qawwali page (so as to move qawaali and it's edit history to that title), I get the message:

• "Can't delete this article because it contains new block-compressed revisions, which are not supported by the new selective undelete feature and could result in data loss if deletion and undeletion happened. This is a temporary situation which the developers are well aware of, and should be fixed within a month or two. Please mark the page for deletion, protect the page and wait for a software update to allow normal deletion. If there is an actual complaint from a copyright holder or other suitable legal complaint and they are unwilling to accept page blanking and protection as a temporary measure, please ask a developer for assistance."

Hyacinth 04:41, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Notes for future revisions

1) Has anyone actually come across the spellings "qawaali" and "quwalli"? I've never see those (except as obvious typos). Are they archaic spellings from the past?

2) "Origins" is factually incorrect. Originated in Iraq (I think) in the 1200s (I think). Look up and correct.

3) "Song content": add hamd, naat, ghazal, and small discussion of 2 main extended metaphors used in ghazal.

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You're the expert on qawwali spellings, not me. But given the incredible variation I've seen in the transliteration of other Urdu terms, I wouldn't be surprised if they were attested.

Origins would be linked to Sufism, yes?

There's an article on Islamic music with info that should probably be integrated. Some info on concert composition and poetic content.

Glad you're working on this. Wikipedia can always use experts who write well. Zora 20:30, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

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Your every wish....

That is to say, I've done (3) from the list above, integrating the info from Muslim music, and also some from Talk:Sufism.

I'm amazed how much time it takes to type up just a couple of ruddy paragraphs! But my love of qawwali is deeper even than my admiration for Wikipedia. So I'll definitely be back with more. Sarabseth 01:56, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

revision made by 69.227.234.34 on 4/15

Most of the changes made strike me as either dubious or just personal opinion. I'm not going to go in and undo the changes myself. Leave it to others to do so if they agree.

My comments:

"Most of the songs are based around the poetry of sufi mystics (Such as rumi)." This is not true. Many of the songs are by Urdu and Punjabi poets who are not Sufis.

"The source poems however are often very long and the sung qawaalis are often based around a few key phrases." Not true either. Many qawwalis are quite long, but largely due to lines being repeated many times, non-verbal improvisations, and lines from other poems being inserted into the main song. Very few of the source poems themselves are particularly long.

"Different qawaali lineages (called gharanas) attach different melodic and song competition to the same lyrics." Don't see the point of including this.

"Some qawaali singers (such as Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan) consider the essence of qawaali to be any concert which contains most if not all these subcategories of songs:" Totally misleading. ANY traditional qawwali performance is required to include a hamd and one or more naats. And I have never seen one which did not also include one or more manqabats and one or more ghazals. The previous version was factually correct, and is not improved by this addition.

"The most popular manqabat is man kunto maula." Personal opinion.

"It is one of the few songs that all qawalli lineages sing with the same melody and lyrics." Don't see the point of including this.

"A rang. Most traditional qawaali concerts held in a religious context end with the song "aj rang hai nai", by Amir Khusro, who has been called the "forest gump of indian music" insofar he is credit for inventing a large amount of things associated with indian music today. This song is associated with events celebrated in the Hindu festival of holi." Rang is not a category. It is just this one song. The correct title is "Aaj rang hai ri ma". The song has NOTHING whatsoever to do with holi. And, personally, I would strongly prefer not to insult Amir Khusro by calling him the "forest (sic) gump of indian music".

"...and because of the instruments association with prostetution, the harmonium became the main instrument used." Huh? Sarabseth 04:22, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Harmonium - sarangi

I did keep the bit re the harmonium replacing the sarangi. I believe that the harmonium is a fairly recent introduction, though it's now ubiquitous, and I'm prepared to believe that it has major advantages over a more traditional instrument. But I'm not at ALL sure of any of this. I left out the bit about sarangi being associated with prostitutes. The "prostitutes" were tawaif, and they were much more like geisha; they sang, danced, played music, wrote poetry, and were amusing, cultivated companions and performers as much as bed-partners. I can't imagine that any of the arts in which they were so painstakingly trained were tainted by the association.

Or perhaps I've just watched Umrao Jaan too often <g>. Zora 04:49, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yes, that bit is useful, and should be retained. Sarabseth 12:38, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Kausar

I wonder if anyone can explain to me the significance of "Kausar". It comes up often in qawwalis. I know it is the name of a fountain in Paradise, but there is clearly some significance over and above that. Ali is referred to as "Saqi-e-Kausar", and there are references to how he will greet entrants into Paradise and offer them the waters of Kausar to drink. Sarabseth 17:21, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)