Talk:North by Northwest

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Female Lead's Age[edit]

Eva Marie Saint's age in 1959 was 35, her character's age was stated in the film as being 26. If anyone has any extra info on that topic it would enhance the article. (Cary Grant's age was 55, quite an age gap in that relationship) EdX20 (talk) 15:36, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

   Perhaps May-December romance will explicate "quite an age gap". I (a male), for one, admit (but never discuss) my exceedingly brief personal experience (in the opposite direction that our article seems to suggest). ... Whether the older female would is beyond my willingness to speculate.
--JerzyA (talk) 12:58, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Made by Paramount[edit]

It was said at the time of the film's production that Paramount produced the film, but they were disappointed with the quality of the image and they didn't want to be attributed it to them, so they sold it on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.67.29.215 (talk) 22:18, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is nonsense. It was with MGM from the start. - Gothicfilm (talk) 15:30, 16 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Also, Head would have done the costumes had it been done at Paramount.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:6000:8742:5a00:cc9c:3d5a:38b9:c728 (talk) 23:57, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
   Such insights are always welcome, and thanks also to the c-l nb. for the further (unsourced) insight left stranded in the corresponding edit summary:
(→‎Made by Paramount: Edith Head worked at Paramount. She couldn't be released to do the costumes on North by Northwest.)
   It would be good to have the WP:RS for that info, so we could add it to the article; likewise, the basis for any intentional distinction between "be" and "have been", and any surrounding context for that specific participation, incl. whether the "couldn't" refers to an inflexible contract clause, or to a more practical conflict involving production- and time-off- scheduling.
--JerzyA (talk) 12:20, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Plot synopsis / Biplane sequence[edit]

In an iconic sequence, Thornhill travels by bus to meet Kaplan at an isolated crossroads in the middle of the perfectly flat, open Iowa countryside.

I'm pretty sure that the directions that Thornhill receives direct him south and east, which would put the location of the biplane ambush in Indiana, not Iowa.

I'm not sure enough, however, to go ahead and edit the page. Opinion?

Dave (talk) 20:40, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Can you find a source that indicates (1) where he was when he received the instructions; and (2) exactly what the instructions say? →Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 00:16, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Do we even need to state the state? Seems like a pretty minor detail to me. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:07, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It probably is, I'm just curious to know. I should add point (3) Does the film actually say that he went to Iowa? Or is this just all inference? The film climaxes in South Dakota, which is closer to Iowa than to Indiana. →Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 08:13, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If this script [http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/n/north-by-northwest-script-transcript.html] is faithful to the film, it was in fact Indiana. →Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 09:15, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
And if you put ["north by northwest" indiana] into Google, all kinds of references pop up. However, you also get references by googling ["north by northwest" iowa]. Looks like it's desparation time - someone needs to get the film and learn what it actually says. However, this entry from the University of Iowa states that it's an Indian cornfield.[1] I think Indiana wins this one, barring further evidence. →Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 09:20, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It was on TCM last night. As per the script, Eve does tell Thornhill to take the bus from Chicago to Indianapolis and get off partway, so that puts it either in Illinois or Indiana. She informs him it's about an hour and a half by car from Chicago. Is Indiana within about 90 miles of Chicago? (P.S. the direction from Indianapolis to Chicago: northwest.) Clarityfiend (talk) 20:23, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
From Chicago, it's only about 15 miles south south-east to the Indiana border. So even at 30 miles per hour, that would only be about 30 minutes driving time before reaching the border by the most direct route. A 90 minute drive toward Indianapolis from Chicago would place the passenger most definitely within the state of Indiana. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 19:26, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In the CAST section there is an incorrect entry....[edit]

Great article unfortunately the following comment is partially incorrect.

"The title refers not to a compass position (NNW doesn't exist)"

NNW is a compass point, so it does exist.... not sure why that was mentioned in the first place. Best to just say the title refers not to a compass point...

NNW is a compass point - correct but that is not the film's title. There is no compass point North by Northwest, the correct name would be Northwest by North (NWbN) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.159.131.95 (talk) 07:32, 8 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Robgps August 26 2011 06:03 UTC — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robgps (talk • contribs) 06:04, 26 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Another error in the CAST section is the claim "Landis, who played Thornhill's mother, was in reality 10 months younger than Cary Grant." The Wikipedia entries for these two people show that Grant (aka Thornhill) was born in 1904 and Landis was born in 1896. So "in reality" she was 8 years older than Grant. I haven't edited the article to change this; perhaps I'm misunderstanding something???? 24.21.179.235 (talk) 08:30, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There was uncertainty about Landis's birth year (Talk:Jessie Royce Landis#Disputed birthyear) which decided in favor of 1896 over 1904, but that didn't get propagated to here until now. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:24, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Another possible source for the title[edit]

As mentioned in Archive1, there is a held shot of the NORTHWEST sign for the counter for Northwest Airlines at the airport. Are we sure that the title doesn't simply mean "traveling north by Northwest Airlines"? Remember, it was only a working title, so it didn't really have to imply Shakespeare. Note: my original idea, so no good without a source. David Spector (talk) 20:53, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I believe Hitch himself made reference to that also.. in the movie trailer, re: his AH Travel Agency. 2602:304:CDAF:A3D0:F146:2A94:DBC3:4E30 (talk) 14:32, 9 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Leonard[edit]

The article doesn't mention that Martin Landau's character, Leonard, is homosexual. It's not particularly subtle, so it's surprising it got past the Hayes Office. Whether Lehman meant it as a slur against gay men is not known. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 14:07, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a source for that onformation or is it just your opinion? Beeblebrox (talk) 19:23, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nowadays you do not need a source for pointing the finger to someone or something for allegedly being homophobic, it just takes a strong opinion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.115.49.200 (talk) 07:07, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

When Leonard tells Vandamm of his suspicions about Kendall, he says, 'Call it my woman's intuition, if you will.' Vandamm tries to laugh it off and says,'Leonard, I do believe you're jealous! And I'm flattered!' Khamba Tendal (talk) 13:54, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hardly proof of anything. DonIago (talk) 15:55, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

We do not have a reliable source saying any character is gay. And yes, we do need a source to say anything. - SummerPhDv2.0 16:11, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think Martin Landau himself, speaking to the Daily Telegraph in 2012, would count as a reliable source. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/starsandstories/9601547/Martin-Landau-I-chose-to-play-Leonard-as-gay.html "I chose to play Leonard as a gay character. It was quite a big risk in cinema at the time. My logic was simply that he wanted to get rid of Eva Marie Saint with such a vengeance, so it made sense for him to be in love with his boss, Vandamm, played by James Mason. Every one of my friends thought I was crazy, but Hitchcock liked it. A good director makes a playground and allows you to play."
The Time Out Film Guide, Third Edition, 1993, ISBN 0-14-017513-X, p.499, says, "And it's one of those films from which you can take as many readings as you want: conspiracy paranoia, Freudian nightmare (in which mothers, lovers, gays and cops all conspire against a man), parable on modern America..." (Capsule review by Helen MacKintosh.) The gay character alluded to would be Leonard.
There's a little more to it than Landau recalls, because it's in the script, in the dialogue I quoted above, making it implicitly obvious to the audience (about as obvious as you could be in 1959) that Leonard is gay. He, and he alone, sees through Kendall's deception because he is not overly susceptible to her feminine charm and, as Vandamm and Landau himself suggest, he is a little jealous of the boss's attachment to her. So it's a plot point as well as a character note. Of course they may have tweaked the script to suit Landau's interpretation, since, as he says, Hitch approved and endorsed the idea.
Variety's posthumous appreciation of Landau in 2017, cited in the notes to the actor's Wiki biography, confirms the story. "Landau, with Hitchcock’s approval, chose to play the henchman as gay, with a hidden crush on his boss (James Mason). Though the characterization fit the then-timely stereotype of homosexual villainy (this was 1959, after all), if you watch it now, it’s the subtext that humanizes the character. Landau’s eyes burn with a quality that only he would have had the audacity to bring to the role." https://variety.com/2017/film/news/martin-landau-appreciation-tribute-1202499149/ Khamba Tendal (talk) 11:51, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinate error[edit]

{{geodata-check}}

The following coordinate fixes are needed for The map coordinates are incorrect.


—98.24.240.31 (talk) 14:51, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now. The only coordinates in the article—those indicating the location where the crop-duster attack was filmed—match the location (Garces Hwy. near Dairy Ave./Corcoran Rd.) stated in California State Route 155 and also on this page. If you have reliable information that this location is incorrect, please create a new thread on this page, including the {{geodata-check}} template and specifying the location where you think the filming took place, along with a reliable source for the information. Deor (talk) 18:50, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"I see you've got the pumpkin" - R.O.T.[edit]

i dont know if this line was improvised or scripted.. but it alludes to an infamous 1948 'MacGuffin' that also contained microfilm & etc. It was to be the start of Tricky Dick Nixon's political career, founded on consistant mud-slinging towards his opponents. (you can google or wiki "pumpkin microfilm nixon", read the wiki entry re: Richard Nixon, and the years 1948 - 1950) That's when he got labeled 'Tricky Dick' for his nefarious campaign tactics. 2602:304:CDAF:A3D0:F146:2A94:DBC3:4E30 (talk) 15:20, 9 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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"North by Northwest (moive)" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect North by Northwest (moive). Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Regards, SONIC678 04:41, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Final showdown in Alaska?[edit]

The climax of the movie is on Mount Rushmore which is on South Dakota. On what grounds was this edit reverted to say it was on Alaska? David S Hawkin (talk) 21:54, 28 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's a direct quote. It was originally going to end in Alaska. The very next sentence states that they settled on Mount Rushmore. DonQuixote (talk)
It'd have to be a very big mountain to be on South Dakota. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:45, 29 January 2021 (UTC) [reply]

Comedic[edit]

Am I allowed to add the word "comedic" to the description at the beginning of the article, with a reference published by the Library of Congress, which describes the movie as a "... melding of espionage, comedy, and romance, and a surprisingly prophetic template for the James Bond movies that would follow only a few years later, ..."? I hope the reference is OK; it seems to be written by a Hitchcock-expert close to the level of the great Donald Spoto himself. Here:

https://www.loc.gov/static/programs/national-film-preservation-board/documents/North%20by%20Northwest.leitch.pdf

If anyone objects to me inserting the word "comedic" between "American" and "spy" in the first sentence, please chime in. I'll wait a few days.

Best wishes, HandsomeMrToad (talk) 06:46, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]


UPDATE: Here's a reliable online source, a site maintained by film historian Tim Dirks and endorsed by Roger Ebert, which says of this movie: "The quick-paced, glamorous espionage thriller includes a tongue-in-cheek odyssey away from the city - a perilous adventure for a man who is normally sheltered by his wealth and prestige." (My emphasis - HandsomeMrToad.) Merriam-Webster defines "tongue-in-cheek" as "with insincerity, irony, or whimsical exaggeration". (Again, my emphasis - HMT.) Based on this, I think that "comedic" is a pretty good in-my-own-words (own-word, in this case) paraphrasing of the lines I quoted from Dirks' description.
So, I am again submitting, for debate and consensus seeking, my proposal to add the word "comedic" in the first sentence of the article, after "American" and before "spy thriller". I think this should be added because the source justifies it, and because (IMHO) to describe the movie just as a "spy thriller" suggests something much darker and disturbing than it is. If the reader were to read only the first sentence and no further, he would get a totally wrong impression of what the movie is, if the phrase "American spy thriller film" were left alone without mentioning or hinting that the film is a gut-busting laugh-riot.
Again, I'll wait a few days for objections to appear here, before I proceed.
Best wishes, HandsomeMrToad (talk) 22:12, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It isn't widely known or referred to as a comedy. I think the two sources would support mentioning its comedic elements in the body, but not as a primary descriptor in the lead sentence. Schazjmd (talk) 22:40, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Influences - Hart to Hart[edit]

In the 80’s show Hart to Hart in episode 3.21 it references NxNW very nearly explicitly and knowingly: “and old Cary Grant film”. The fake suit storyline is even lifted, and made-up CIA agent idea also. 2600:8802:380A:3400:8C6E:E2F3:C042:DEC7 (talk) 17:07, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:IPCV there would need to be an independent source that discussed that reference before we could add it to the article. NxNW has been frequently referenced and we shouldn't bloat the article by including every trivial reference to the film, or any article by including every pop culture reference to its subject. DonIago (talk) 14:19, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Continuity[edit]

Cary Grant called his mother to get him out of jail, but he was trying to send her a telegram from the hotel where he was kidnapped because she had no phone! Kilcreggangeorge (talk) 15:38, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Are you suggesting a change to the article? We don't typically just point out goofs, especially not unless sources have pointed them out. DonIago (talk) 21:38, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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