Talk:History of Jordan

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Untitled[edit]

Right now, this is ripped right from the article on Jordan itself. It should be changed or else its a prime vfd candidate. --Use stop 05:03, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Ancient History[edit]

This does not mention the military campaigns led by Moses in ancient Jordan. Is there no archaeology to support this? The tribes of Gad and Reuben were assigned land in what is now Jordan. The half-tribe of Manasseh also gained land on the East Bank after Moses conquered ancient Transjordan. Iosef aetos 16:28, 7 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Those are some long dark ages there.[edit]

Just came across this article.... It seems that Jordan has absolutely no history until 1920 since long before the time of christ. Surely though this isn't true...- Wasn't there the Roman Empire, various Arab dynasties, etc...--Him and a dog 12:42, 6 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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Periods[edit]

Hi. What are the most common periodisations used in and for Jordan? I am familiar with those most commonly used for Israel/Palestine, but there are of course differences addressing Jordanian particularities (the semiarid West vs the more arid East and South, conquering powers arriving and staying for slightly different intervals of time, etc.) There are probably events which set the starting and end date for each period, which vary slightly in the wider region.

A clear mainstream periodisation for Jordan would be the ideal outcome of the discussion I'm trying to start here. That could then be applied to all the individual history sections of every article about Jordanian cities, archaeological sites and so on.

There is a discussion on whether the term "medieval/Middle Ages" even applies to the Middle East (arguments: middle between what? Late Antiquity lingered on for longer, there never was a Renaissance in the European meaning, the feudal system was specifically European and only came with the Crusaders). How does it play out in Jordanian academia? I see a far too long "Medieval period" in the article, but that's a frequent mistake.

What do the terms Early / Middle / Late Islamic period mean? Are these terms used in Jordan, are they mainstream, are they outdated? How are these periods defined? When do they start and end? They do show up in articles about Jordan, but I cannot find a periodisation offering the basic meaning. (I have tried to start a discussion on this specific topic at Talk:Timeline of Islamic history).

Further down a few definitions and a skeleton for a start.

Thanks.

Before Present (BP)
Before Common Era (BCE)
kya = kilo years ago = 1000 years ago

List of archaeological periods (Levant) is a good start.

There are differences between archaeological and historical periods, but that's not the first concern here.
Archaeological periods are defined by material culture, historical periods by societal, government and other criteria which don't necessarily coincide with visible changes in the archaeological record.

Archaeological periods in the region:

Prehistory (no writing; only stone tools)
Ancient (see Near East); basically Bronze and Iron Ages; metal, writing appear.
Classical (usually Alexander to Muslim conquest; age of classical empires/cultures)
Islamic and medieval (discussion: medieval = Crusader period?)

Archaeological periods of Jordan after Homès-Fredericq and Hennessy (1986)

Hellenistic 332 – 63 BCE

Nabataean-Early Roman 63 BCE – 106 CE
Late Roman 106 – 324

Early Byzantine 324 – 491
Late Byzantine 491 – 634

Islamic 634 onwards

More in detail
Palaeolithic period (Stone Age)

    Early/Lower
    Middle
    Late/Upper

Epipalaeolithic [synonymous or not (interpretation!) with Mesolithic] Neolithic period

    Pre-Pottery Neolithic (PPN)
         Pre-Pottery Neolithic A (PPNA)
         Pre-Pottery Neolithic B (PPNB)
    Pottery (PN)

Chalcolithic period (Copper Age)l some see it as part of Bronze Age

    Early
    Middle+Late

Bronze Age

    Early Bronze Age (EB)
         Early Bronze IA (EB IA)
         Early Bronze IB (EB IB)
         Early Bronze II (EB II)
         Early Bronze III (EB III)
    Intermediate Bronze Age (alternatively seen as EB IV, EB-MB, MBI)
    Middle Bronze Age (MB)
         Middle Bronze IIA (MB IIA)
         Middle Bronze IIB (MB IIB)
    Late Bronze Age (LB)
         Late Bronze I (LB I)
         Late Bronze IIA (LB IIA)
         Late Bronze IIB (LB IIB)

Iron Age

    Iron Age IA (IA)
    Iron Age IB (IA IB)
    Iron Age IIA (IA IIA)
    Iron Age IIB (IA IIB)
    Iron Age IIC (IA IIC)

[Neo-]Assyrian (often left out), [Neo-]Babylonian, Persian periods [Classical antiquity often seen to start with Hellenistic period] Hellenistic period

         Early Hellenistic
         Late Hellenistic

Roman period

         Early Roman period
         Late Roman period

Byzantine period

         Early Byzantine period
         Late Byzantine period

[Islamic and medieval periods start here] Early Muslim/Arab period

         Muslim conquest
         Rashidun period
         Umayyad period
         Abbasid period [+Fatimid, Seljuk etc.]

Crusader/Ayyubid period Ayyubid/Mamluk period Ottoman period

         Early Ottoman period
         Late Ottoman period

British Mandate period
Independence

ALTERNATIVELY:
Modern period, including (part of) Late Ottoman and all the following

Discussions of special interest for Jordan:

When can we speak of Bronze Age kingdoms; nomadic kingdoms?
Edomite settlement area. Babylonian defeat of Judah, westward move, term "Idumean" more than a Greek adaptation of "Edomite?"
Nabataeans: different concept of rule over territory (nomadic traits, trade, controlling routes vs settling outside heartland), Nabataean identity long after 106
interaction with Hasmoneans, Jews and Samaritans in general during Persian & Hellenistic periods (see Tobiads)
Ghassanids
Seljuks: often included in Abbasid period, but not quite accurate
Fatimids: not enough attention offered
Local tribal rule, feuds: central power at times only nominal, local rule more relevant
Christian life under Muslim rule: Christian Bedouins! with hereditary priesthood until 19th, maybe 20th c.
Crusader-Muslim condominiums (less consensus lately)
Crusader-Ayyubid-Mamluk transitions and overlaps
WWI and transition to Mandate, wider context with Arabia, Syria, Iraq Arminden (talk) 00:34, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Change dating system to Common Era[edit]

I will be changing the dating system on this article away from the biased, Christian based AD/BC to the common era system. This will bring the article into alignment with secular usage such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_India. If you object, please state why you are ok with the biased system here. Eupnevma (talk) 19:54, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Before you go changing AC BC please read Wikipedia:Manual of Style, specifically MOS:VAR. Also, instead of hundreds of discussions regarding the changes on hundreds of different talk pages, get a conversation going here: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style. Thanks! Masterhatch (talk) 20:30, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This page is criminally lacking in many regards[edit]

It's inconceivable to me that the "Middle Ages" period is summarized in three small paragraphs, and still more that the "Ottoman Period" is a single large paragraph. There is more history to the caravans that passed through this country than what is written in this page as of March 2024. LINFAN01 (talk) 13:12, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]