Talk:Judiciary of Ukraine

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The Cassation Court of Ukraine was proclaimed uncostitutional by the Constitutional Court of Ukraine. I removed it from the list. Reviewed the article for inconsistencies. Sashazlv (talk · contribs) Jan. 06, 2004.

Law on the Court System[edit]

Could anyone read the Law [1] and update the article. Currently, there are a few inconsistencies. Sashazlv 03:38, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup template added[edit]

I added clean-up template since the article is misleading regarding the system of courts. There is a distinctive branch of господарські (commercial?) courts. Going to rewrite someday. Am I using the template correctly? Ukrained 10:07, 18 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

There's nothing misleading there. господарські courts (there's not appropriate translation, arbitration courts is the closest I could find) are within the system of courts of general jurisdiction. господарські courts are specialized courts, same as administrative and military courts. Talking about them as a separate branch is a matter of your personal taste, which is not quite in line with the constitution and the law on судоустрій. That said, I am removing your clean-up stub. Sashazlv 17:50, 18 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. I doubt that. Being no lawyer, I wouldn't dare to edit or to discuss the terms stressed by you. But let's use some logic with a particular court body: Господарський суд м. Києва is, regarding the text:
    • neither a Local courts of general jurisdiction - since it isn't mentioned among such courts
    • nor an Appeal court - we have a separate Апеляційний господарський суд м.Києва
    • nor even a High court with specialized jurisdiction
So where does it belong? Thus, the classification used is either misleading or unsufficient. I would suggest you find a Ukrainian lawyer for consulting. However, I'm not going to revert or quarrel such a technical unpoliticized topic. Leaving the template question up to other Wikipedians Ukrained 22:39, 19 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the system is overly complicated to exactly fit into a 4 level vertical structure. Especially, since the President can create courts and transfer judges. And, moreover, since the judicial reform is under way.

My point was that there are 2 jurisdictions: general and constitutional. Within general jurisdiction, there are "conventional" courts and courts with specialized jurisdiction. Plus there are vertical structures of appeals and cassation. To say that there are branches within general jurisdiction is a bit of a stretch.

Regarding господарські courts. It's too long a story why they exist and whether they should exist at all. Do you think it's just a coincidence the term is so hard to translate?

Anyway, my long-term impression is that nobody would be interested. So, don't waste your time. Sashazlv 02:40, 20 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Second that opinion of yours, and interesting one (first I've noticed somewhere at POrtal talk). What do you think somebody would be interested with? In other words, where should we the Ukrainian editors should concentrate first? Ukrained 18:55, 20 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I would say making Kiev a featured article. It's less likely to fall prey to political disagreements -- if history section is kept short. I submitted it for peer review about half a year ago, but it died out at that point. Please, cross-post this on portal talk and add your comments. Sashazlv 23:29, 20 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

OK, we both are already there. Moving FA discussion to Portal:Ukraine/Ukraine-related Wikipedia notice board. Ukrained 11:17, 21 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Example for this wikipedia article:[edit]

(I started to improve the article last month but unfortunately I haven't got time right now to do more but) that is how I want it to look like.
— Yulia Romero (formerly Mariah-Yulia) • Talk to me! 01:01, 12 March 2011

References that could be used in expanding this wiki article:[edit]

+ 1 more. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 17:19, 3 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Jurors versus lay judges[edit]

I don't think Ukraine has jurors or juries. Lay judges decide facts along with regular judges; a jury decides facts alone. Lay judges are appointed politically or quasi-politically e.g. randomly from a pool of politically approved lists; juries are chosen randomly, directly from the electorate. int21h (talk · contribs · email) 18:23, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Another way to think about it, a hypothetical: if Putin chooses 13 people as "jurors" systemwide based on their political party upon application (i.e. this is the "pool"), and subsequently 12 jurors are "randomly" chosen for a specific trial, that's not a jury at all but lay judges, regardless of whether it's fair or not, and regardless of whether the 12 were "randomly" selected since the universe or pool of 13 was not random. (Here Putin is used to make things especially clear about their non-random nature). int21h (talk · contribs · email) 18:29, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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