Talk:Épée

Notes

Notes (from one reader who does not wish to edit the page directly):

• A competition epee may weigh as little as 350g or less.
• Mention electronics: Hits to guard automatically disallowed. Hits to floor sometimes disallowed automatically, otherwise floor spotters may be requested.
• No corps-a-corps rule (as in foil): shoulder-crossing rule instead.
• Hand and wrist are common targets.
• Timings for hits and doubles are decreed by the FIE.
• Epee is the only weapon to have regulations on tip travel: Gauges available from fencing suppliers. Weapons usually tested before and after each fight in high grade competitions.
• Competition arrangement: Pools of 5 to 7, fence everyone in the pool to 5 hits. Then seed according to (1)wins, (2)hit difference, and (3)hits scored. Then direct elimination, fights to 15, timed 3 minutes, 1 minute break, 3 minutes, 1 break, 3 minutes. [Compare to Sabre which has an automatic break at 8 hits.]
• Used in Modern Pentathlon as a one-hit bout. Each pentathlete fences every other pentathlete to 1 hit. Double hits ignored for win/loss.

In pentathlon, doubles count as a loss for both participants.

Corps à corps

1) While there is no penalty for non-violent corps a corps in epee (unlike the other weapons), corps a corps stops the action and no touches are awarded after that halt.

2) Also, the shoulders may be reversed in epee.

Shoulders may be reversed in all weapons, so it's not a special issue. Kd5mdk 07:48, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

3) I think that corps a corps would stop a bout but not an action. This would mean that a fencer in one continuos action, say lunging and the opponent counter attacking at the same moment, is entitled to the point / score. If either of one or both hits the other that person/persons would be awarded the point.

4) Bouts are stopped due to the distance of both fencers not being able to score intentionally with that given distance.

5) With the issue of the non-fencing shoulder facing the opponent, this is not a concern in epee since both shoulders are valid targets. With foil, facing the non-fencing shoulder to the opponent is not permitted since that part of the body is not a valid target and therefore giving the opponent the lower hand.

Regarding 3,4, and 5 above, are you sure? a) corps a corps is in contact. If the two fencers are really close together, say 6", but not touching, I don't think that it's corps a corps. The director would probably not stop the bout unless the director felt that it was a safety issue, and that safety issue would be unusual. The two fencers can and will attempt to score on each other at this distance. This is a preferred distance for some fencers. b) I believe that corps a corps is only called when contact is made and yes, I think that each fencer gets to finish their action. c) and of course a halt is called when the two fencers pass each other, but even then I believe that they'll still get a chance to score a hit as they cross, probably must occur within the same action. d) I didn't fence much foil, but both shoulders are target so bringing your back shoulder forward is legal, maybe not a good idea, but legal. The primary rule is not turning your back such that you could get a weapon hitting the back of your head (i.e. not covered by the mask). RobSVA (talk) 01:01, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Groove

From what I've heard, the groove serves to make the weapon lighter and did not have to do with blood draining. I'd change it, but I could be wrong. Anybody able to confirm? KnightofNEE 08:19, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

I have read in numerous references on swords and fencing that the fuller (groove) is to make the weapon lighter and stiffer, including medieval swords. Indeed, it has nothing to do with blood drainage. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.166.99.229 (talk • contribs) 02:00, 17 Jan 2007 (UTC)

Politely - loads of rubbish. If I could prove it I would take it out immediately but I will go look --Herby ^{talk thyme} 13:08, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The groove these days is as much to protect the wires from breakage as anything else. --digital_me 04:35, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

History

I don't believe the Epee evloved from the foil - my understanding was both weapons evolved somewhat concurrently with the epee having more to do with the smallsword then the foil - they're very different weapons. I'm making a minor edit to that section.--Lepeu1999 17:42, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Can we get a new photo? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zosimus (talk • contribs)

Which photo? The target or the epee fencer?--digital_me^{(TalkˑContribs)} 15:38, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

The target isn't a photo, is it? I agree with Zosimus. It would be nice to show an épée fencer demonstrating correct form. TCC (talk) (contribs) 18:29, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the photo, and put up a new one of my épée that I took.--digital_me^{(TalkˑContribs)} 18:01, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

The section about a duel ending from a minor nick to the wrist is incorrect IMO - there are plenty of duels recorded wth epees (including the one fought by Aldo Nadi) where opponents received several substantial injuries but continued until either (a) the seconds stepped in and halted it, or (b) the party challenged conceded (as was the case with Nadi). It's correct that epee duels were less lethal, but the point of a wrist hit is that you are unlikely to prosecute an attack and extend forward with a needle-sharp epee point buried in your arm! On a sidenote, early epee bouts were fenced to a single hit and a double hit (where both opponents struck simultaneously) was recored as a loss for each: in a duelling situation a double hit might mean both combatants ended fatally wounded. A winniing hit was therefore only one where you scored cleanly without the threat of counterattack, hence the emphasis of epee tactics in taking of an opponent's blade and scoring in opposition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.228.1.62 (talk) 14:19, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Photo changed Aug 24, 2006

I found it very difficult to tell the end of the blade from the background due to the poor lighting of the original photo. I've photoshopped the original into something which will make the shape of the blade more apparent. Not that it matters, but this new file is also only 1/40th the size of the original. FarFromHomeFish 18:11, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not really sure what you're talking about, the blade not being visible; perhaps you need to calibrate your monitor? In any case, I'll go and fix the image so it doesn't look as bad as the one in the article.--digital_me^{(Talk•Contribs)} 02:40, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

As I wrote above, the original photo was poorly blended at the right end due to the lighting. My edit was meant to better define the shape of the blade, and in this way, I believe that my edit was preferable to your latest revision. However, I feel as if the relative qualities of these photos isn't worth squabbling over and certainly isn't worth a revision war; since you wish to maintain artistic control over your photo, I see no benefit to reverting. FarFromHomeFish 07:22, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Could someone find a better picture here. Two guys with very poor physical condition and technique fencing in some local US competition does not give good reputation for this beautiful and aristocratic sport - Epee article in Wikipedia deserves at least a shot from FIE ranking top men fencing in Olympics or world championships final, don't you think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.50.179.2 (talk) 14:29, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

epee weights

I've made some changes; there's no such thing as a 750g epee, or a 150g epee either. I think the two came from googling on "epee weight"; an *epee weight* is 750g. An epee does not weigh that much. The distinction is subtle, but important.

A Leon Paul epee *blade* weighs 150g, not the whole epee.

No epee is as light as a light foil.

I removed the link to the Leon Paul page, since it's dead. I can't find a current page from LP saying what their lightest epees weigh.

epee tactics

It would be nice to get a summary of epee tactics, and even how they've changed over the years (1950s vs 1980s vs now, pre and post Harmenberg, that sort of thing). I'm not up to writing it myself right now, but if no one else starts it I may give it a swing.

Baron ridiculous (talk) 02:01, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to see more of a discussion on epee tactics. Johan Harmenberg has relevant books, epee 2.0 and epee 2.5. I believe that epee 2.5 has a new edition coming out to correct some typos. The books discuss a large amount of his tactics and how they were a change from the previous tactics used by many fencers. Conflict of Interest disclosure: I studied under Eric Sollee, Harmenberg's coach at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology with whom Harmenberg developed his approach. I overlapped Harmenberg for 6 months, but I was just a beginner. I overlapped Geoff Pingree who wrote a section in epee 2.5. RobSVA (talk) 01:18, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

World rankings?

Since the rankings on the page appear to be almost nine months out of date, I'm going to cut them from the page. If one is available, I'd suggest putting a link to a website that maintains up-to-date rankings at the bottom of the page. But if this page isn't updated frequently enough to keep those rankings more current than this, they probably don't belong. MrCheshire (talk) 14:25, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Wireless Hitmate Epee

Any body has information on different wireless Epees or how do they work? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.100.133.41 (talk) 00:40, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Pronounciation

/ˈɛpeɪ/ surely represents the English pronounciation of the word, not the French one. Could somebody add the French one? It would be more useful. --Kreuzkümmel (talk) 17:00, 16 May 2012 (UTC)