Talk:Miami/Archive 1

New Miami Skyline Photo

Miamitom 12:52, 17 July 2007 (UTC) Okidoke ... I'll post a cropped version. :) -t-

Miamitom, The cropped version of the photo looks good! --Miamiomar 00:02, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Miamitom, We usually prefer a more complete skyline photo angle, but the latest skyline photo looks pretty good. Would it be possible for you to crop the photo to show more skyline with less water and sky? I think that'd make it look even better in the article. Also, it looks like there is some boat wake something at the bottom. We appreciate anything you can do to improve it. Thanks for the photo!--MIA777 00:48, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Instead of all the petty complaints, why don't you just put the last one back? What was wrong with it? - Marc Averette 00:27, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I've never seen this guy before and he's acting like he's a Wikipedia admin. Wtf? The picture is wonderful. Skillz187 19:18, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I've never heard of skillz "murder" wikipedia editor guy, but I agree with the original guy. 'Marc Averette' used to put up high res quality photos of the whole main skyline, but now the city is back to looking small with boat waves at the bottom of the picture. Can 'Marc Averette' please put up another quality photo making the city look as good as possible? How San Diego's photos even compete with Miami, I have no idea. Maybe they have somebody that knows how to crop a photo to make it look impressive. Maybe they don't show photos of powerlines in an old neighborhood with old cars. Class people. Look it up. -The silent majority... --Miamiomar 05:41, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Finally somebody gets it(Miamiomar). The picture is wonderful?? If you like the Miami skyline to compare to Fort Lauderdale, Tampa, and Jacksonville, then maybe it is wonderful. --MIA777 06:07, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

I think part of the problem is that the infobox is too restrictive on the photo size. You can't adjust the pixels (at least *I* don't know how to). This makes an oblong photo (as a skyline should be) appear too small in the infobox. Is there a way to adjust the restrictions and make the infobox allow bigger photos? In the case of Miami, the skyline is about 20-30 times wider than it is tall. This just doesn't look good in a tiny infobox. Maybe it would be better to put a large photo strip of the complete skyline (kind of like the one above geography) at the top of the article - before the infobox? Other cities don't do this, but does it matter? Miami may be a special case. - Marc Averette 15:52, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Makes sense that it's tough to get the whole skyline looking good in the photo box. Larger cities like New York or Chicago tend to put only a fraction of the skyline, but they make sure the picture is filled solid with buildings. That gives the impression there is more. If we are only going to show a portion of the skyline to look good in the small box, I think it should be cut better to show the larger buildings in better detail with no end to the skyline in sight. --Rstepp 01:07, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Why do you guys keep switching to Averette's photo? I think MiamiTom's is superior. It's much closer. IF anything, just crop yours a little averette. Skillz187 23:40, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Miamitom 14:34, 17 August 2007 (UTC) This guy Mark Averette Marc Averetteis very insecure about allowing anyone else to post photos on this page or on the South Beach pages. As a result of this childish pettiness, I am not going to post any more photos, although I have many, unless you all find a way to override him. I find that although Wikipedia claims to be a place where "all" can contribute, there are those like him who like to make these kinds of sites into their own little fiefdoms. Let me know once you have this settled and I'll be happy to post more.

You're seriously confused. The only photo I ever removed of yours was the one that you put first on the South Beach article that showed nothing but water. South Beach is a section of the city of Miami Beach, not water. The photo was inappropriate since it replaced a photo of the city (which I didn't take by the way). The photo that's currently in the infobox for Miami was not taken (or put in there) by me either. I want others to contribute as much as possible. I went to your page and some of your photos are excellent. I have no problem with anyone using photos as long as they pertain to the article or section. You obviously haven't been in Miami too long if you think the MacArthur Causeway bridge is the Julia Tuttle Bridge, as you erroneously claimed in that last photo you posted. - Marc Averette 16:47, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Climate

The article cited a high temperature record of 103 F on July 17, 2010. Neither www.weather.com nor www.wunderground.com agrees with this figure. I have changed it to the official record of 98 F. And same with the record low. I have no idea where he got 27 F. As to 20 F in Homestead, that is also bogus, besides not being particularly relevant since Homestead is a separate city, about 30 mi from Miami. Even his citation only says that 20 F was recorded in unspecified locations, namely "[s]ections of Dade and Broward Counties plummeted to record minimum temperatures as low as 20 oF (-6.6 oC), and remained below freezing for 10-14 hours." It does not specify Homestead, whose official low temp record is 26 F. People should not use Wikipedia to bs about the weather.

Demographics

There is some confusion in the Demographics section. It says "The racial makeup of the city is 66.62% White, 22.31% African American, 0.25% Native American, 0.66% Asian, 0.04% Pacific Islander, 5.42% from other races, and 4.74% from two or more races. 65.76% of the population are Hispanic or Latino of any race."The 66% White and 65% Hispanic are conflicting. If you factor in 65% and 22% for African Americans that leaves 13% for Whites. Could someone clarify/correct this? I know for sure that 65% is Hispanic but the rest is unclear. Milk 02:24, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

• From the Race (U.S. Census) page: For the 2000 census the Census Bureau considers race to be separate from Hispanic origin. Funnyhat 02:19, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hispanic is not a racial group, it's the people who speak spanish and they can be white, black or american natives. In countries like Argentina, Spain, Chile or Uruguay all the people is hispanic and white.

The demographic section definitely needs some adjustment; a reference (to the Census for example) would be helpful, as would clarification of racial make-up. As someone stated Hispanics are not a race, but the article should mention that the 4.75% of people from two or more races excludes people who classify themselves as Hispanic, since a preponderance of Hispanics are of mixed races.69.84.100.123 21:25, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

I've added the reference [1], which has the same numbers (rounded off slightly) as those in the article. -- Dalbury^(Talk) 22:42, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Hispanic = origins in a Spanish speaking country. Latino = Origins in a Latin country. An Italian is Latin, as is a Brazillian, but they aren't hispanic. Hispanics come from Spain, most of Central and south America except Brazil. Latinos come from Spain, Portugal, Italy, Brazil, etc.ReignMan 04:53, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Miami's crime rate

Considering how high Miami's crime rate is, why is it crammed in with demographic information so that it's barely noticeable, especially if it ranks so high among the FBI's list of dangerous cities? I think more should be said about it.(72.144.183.207 00:01, 16 November 2007 (UTC))

Grand Theft Auto: Vice City

Does it seem logical to anyone else to modify "television and film" to "media" and include Grand Theft Auto: Vice City as based on the city? -Ickle

GTA:VC is surely set in Vice City, no? By that logic, are Superman and Batman set in New York? john k 06:12, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Well, Gotham was indeed thought to be the comicbook version of NYC, yes. And Gotham is NYC's nickname -- see, for example, the Gotham Center for New York City History (http://www.gothamcenter.org/) or the Gotham Gazette (http://www.gothamgazette.com/). About Vice City representing Miami, I attend university in Miami, and Vice City certainly looks like Miami to me. There is no other city with the same reputation, tropical climate, seaside setting, topography, urban landscape, and ethnic composition in the US, so it's not really a stretch. ~kali June, 2004

Population at incorporation

Is this sentence a mistake? the City of Miami was incorporated with 344 citizens (243 of which were identified as white and 181 as black.

In order for 243 people to be white and 181 to be black, there would have to be some overlap--some people would have to identify as both categories. But in the 1890s, I don't think people were allowed to check more than one racial category in the census. Can anyone find accurate data? Funnyhat 02:16, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Does anyone know the source for these numbers? Helen Muir, in Miami, U.S.A., says that Miami was incorported with 502 registered voters, and mentions a Black artillery of 100 men brought in by Flagler's people to help elect a mayor favorable to the railroad. The 344 number may come from [2], but it doesn't break down the numbers by race, but just says a sizable percentage were black. And this site [3] says Miami had a population of just over 300. As only adult males could register to vote, 344 (or 502) registered voters implies maybe twice that number of residents (allowing for a lot of single men brought in as laborers on the railroad attracked to a boom town). --Dalbury^(Talk) 00:13, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Judge Marilyn Milian

Judge Marilyn Milian is a well-known resident of Miami. She wasn't born there, but she moved there when she was 8. Shouldn't she be on one of those lists?

She's on the notable Coral Gables residents. - Marc Averette 14:47, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Miami Federals

There was never a USFL franchise called the Miami Federals. There was the Washington Federals (1983-1984) who were reincarnated as the Orlando Renegades (1985).

External Links

Anyone notice that most of those external links have to do with Miami Beach and not Miami... these are two separate cities... perhaps they should be removed and placed there? PRueda29 15:31, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Took one out the rest should stay for now --JAranda | watz sup 15:51, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Alright, I just wanted to check before I removed anything, maybe others felt differently. PRueda29 15:56, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Mayors?

I think it would be appropriate for a list of all of the mayors of the City of Miami to be added to this page.

I don't. Perhaps you should create a separate page List of Mayors of the City of Miami for example. JiMternet 23:30, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Nickname Big Orange

User:Joececchini has been adding nicknames to articles. I've reverted the addition of Big Orange. It needs to be properly sourced before allowing it back in this article. -- Dalbury^(Talk) 09:48, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

High school sports puffery

Moved the following here from the article page as POV puffery:

Miami-Dade County is also known to having some of the best High School sports in the country especially in Football. Baseball, Baseketball and Soccer also do very well in High School Sports for Miami-Dade County.

You can cite sources that say that, but putting it this way is POV. -- Dalbury^(Talk) 03:08, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Skyline photographs

Does the article really need 5 pictures of the same thing from slightly different perspectives? They all look great, but let's show some restraint. Cacophony 19:31, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Image Collections

I've removed this photo site (Photographs Over 4,000 images from the State Library & Archives of Florida) from the 'external links' section of the page, as it really borders on linkspam. However, there are a lot of photos, so I've kept the link here as it might come in useful to editors. Dr. Cash 17:47, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Geology of Key Biscayne, Miami Beach, etc.

I removed the sentence, These islands are geologically considered to be part of the Florida Keys, but are not politically related to them, from the article because the sources I've consulted state that Key Biscayne and northward are barrier islands, and not true Florida Keys. Soldier Key south to Sands Key are transitional keys, mixing characteristics of barrier islands and true Florida Keys, while Elliott Key is the northernmost of the true Florida Keys. The sources are cited in the Florida Keys article. -- Dalbury^(Talk) 14:18, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Footnotes

They're a mess. I just added a footnote in Climate, and it is #22 in the text, but there are only 18 footnote entries in References. I'll try to look at them later, but I may not be able to find the sources for some of them. -- Donald Albury (Dalbury)^(Talk) 11:17, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

I've got the footnotes sorted to where the numbers match. I could not find a source for the very sharp decline in non-hispanic white population between 1990 and 2000 (the white flight section), so I pulled the footnote and left a {{fact}} tag. -- Donald Albury (Dalbury)^(Talk) 00:52, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Teele reference broken

The reference {{note|Teele}} [http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/12261057.htm "With suicide, Teele tried to take control"] ''Miami Herald'', dtd July 30, 2005, retrieved January 28, 2006 is broken. -- Donald Albury (Dalbury)^(Talk) 11:13, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Geography

The Miami metropolitan area (Miami-Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach) do not sit between the Miami River, Biscayne Bay, the Everglades and the Atlantic Ocean.

The Miami River runs from the northwest towards Downtown; both the city and the metro area extend far beyond both banks of the river.

The barrier islands separate Biscayne Bay from the Atlantic Ocean. Hence, Biscayne Bay lies completely within the metro area.

The following sentence would correct these errors:

"Miami and the surrounding metropolitan area sit between the Everglades, the Atlantic Ocean, the Loxahatchee River, and Florida Bay."

--ralonso

Your suggestion would work for the South Florida metropolitan area, but I think for this article it would be better to discuss "Greater Miami", i.e., the barrier islands between the Atlantic and northern Biscayne Bay, and the mainland between northern and central Biscayne Bay and the edge of the Everglades, and from the Broward/Miami-Dade line down to somewhere between Coral Gables and Homestead. -- Donald Albury^(Talk) 22:22, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Rainfall

Someone has changed the rainfall figure indicated in the article and some unreliable source was quoted. Please do not do this. The figure of inches is from the U.S. National Weather service. This should be taken as a standard and not some unreliable travel guide websites. Go to http://www.srh.noaa.gov/mfl/localdata.php link and check the figure for each month. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.99.10.52 (talk • contribs)

Homeless in the Miami Arena?

How could people have been left homeless in the Miami Arena after the Great Hurricane? It wasn't built until 1988. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.172.148.231 (talk • contribs) 17:04, 17 May 2006

City Infobox

There has been quite a bit of discussion on WP:CITY for standardizing the city infoboxes, and a consensus has been reached favoring Template:Infobox City over Template:Infobox U.S. City as the standard for all global cities (not just U.S. cities). For some reason, the Miami article does not use either template and uses it's own, but the infobox should be converted to Template:Infobox City format. Dr. Cash 02:43, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Major revert on 11 July 2006

I reverted a bunch of edits by Worker31b this evening. IMHO the edits smacked of 'boosterism', trying to prove that Miami is really bigger than Jacksonville. This article is about the City of Miami, it is not about the Dade County metropolitan area or the South Florida metropolitan area. It is a plain fact that Jacksonville has a larger population than Miami, and so ranks as the most populous city in Florida. -- Donald Albury^(Talk) 23:38, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Hurricane / Climate section - myopic view in article

The "article" on Miami includes the following --> ""Despite this, the city has been fortunate in not having a direct hit by a hurricane since Hurricane Cleo in 1964.[18] However, many other hurricanes have affected the city, including Betsy in 1965, Andrew in 1992, Irene in 1999, and Hurricanes Katrina and Wilma in 2005.""

The reference given is --> [18] http://www.hurricanecity.com/city/miami.htm

So, being personally hit by massive sheets of water + constant 78 MPH winds / 85 MPH gusts within city limits during Katrina, and by massive sheets of water + constant 85 MPH winds / 105 MPH gusts within city limits during Wilma, does NOT constitute a "direct hit" ... ?

All this time, we were merely "affected" and not "direct(ly) hit" !

Several thousand dead trees and hundreds of damaged buildings will be happy to hear this !

((Perhaps wiki requires a massive body count, ala New Orelans, for a "direct hit" to be duly acknowledged?))

Wiki-know-it-alls -> Please define what is meant by "direct hit".

Thank you.

Katrina was still a weak hurricane when it passed over Miami-Dade County, and the eye of Wilma passed over Palm Beach County, so that was not a direct hit on Miami. You only had Category One conditions from those two storms. My wife and I spent a very anxious half-hour as the eye-wall of Wilma passed over, pushing against our front door to keep it from blowing in as we watched drops of water coming through the joints in the panels in the door. My mother had said the same thing happened at the house in Ft. Lauderdale in 1964 when Cleo passed over, but I had never understood what she meant until Wilma. If you want to know what a direct hit by a major hurricane can be like, read 1926 Miami Hurricane. That's the one that took the roof off my grandparents' house. So, if you think Katrina and Wilma were bad in Miami, you may want to leave town if a major hurricane threatens there. -- Donald Albury^(Talk) 02:32, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Just as a side note: when Wilma passed over my area ( north dade county Miami beach ) it was just a dry storm, we had little to no real rain, within dade county area please see this noaa image. http://www.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/tropical/rain/wilma2005filledrainblk.GIF

---

Donald Albury writes "" You only had Category One conditions from those two storms. ""

As far as I recall, a Category One Hurricane is still a Hurricane.

So therefore, you agree that Miami was hit with at least cat. one hurricane-level conditions, and therefore, Miami did suffer a "direct hit" from these two _hurricanes_? Yes, no, maybe?

Naturally, some will claim (perhaps this is an issue best suited for a consensus amongst learned weather authorities of this planet) that a "direct hit" must include the eye passing over the area in question. Perhaps this distinction should be made clear in the Miami article? ...in order to avoid confusion.

Your idea of a "direct hit" does appear to be equivalent to having the "eye" pass directly over the area in question. If so, why the hyperbole about your experience and your grandparents? What is your point? Must I assume that "direct hit" must not only include the "eye" but also include complete devastation and body count worthy of FEMA and Hollywood !!? I hope not.

For the record, ye olde Hurricane Andrew blew my own roof away (south of Miami of course!!), while I was underneath it ... and I don't really remember an eye or a pause/break in the action (sorry)... I guess I didn't get hit then, hunh? I'm sure glad the insurance carrier and the Feds didn't think so, at the time.

Let's review : Have you actually answered the question as stated, in a meaningful fashion? No. Have you given any external references from learned weather authorities in support? No, as far as I can see.

Therefore, I challenge you or anyone, without emotion, but with reason, and without thinking that an article is that personal private property which one is meant to defend because one is infallible in all ways Wikipedia.....

--> Please define what is meant by "direct hit" and give it some authoritative backing. <-- . o O o O (( with respect to hurricanes )

Thank You

The National Hurricane Center defines "direct hit" as,

A close approach of a tropical cyclone to a particular location. For locations on the left-hand side of a tropical cyclone's track (looking in the direction of motion), a direct hit occurs when the cyclone passes to within a distance equal to the cyclone's radius of maximum wind. For locations on the right-hand side of the track, a direct hit occurs when the cyclone passes to within a distance equal to twice the radius of maximum wind. Compare indirect hit, strike.

It further defines "indirect hit" as,

Generally refers to locations that do not experience a direct hit from a tropical cyclone, but do experience hurricane force winds (either sustained or gusts) or tides of at least 4 feet above normal.

"Radius of Maximum Winds" is defined as,

The distance from the center of a tropical cyclone to the location of the cyclone's maximum winds. In well-developed hurricanes, the radius of maximum winds is generally found at the inner edge of the eyewall.

So, by the National Hurricane Center's definitions, Miami did not take a direct hit from Hurricanes Andrew or Wilma, because the eye-wall did not pass over or even close to it, but Miami did take an indirect hit from both storms. Katrina is a bit trickier. The center of Katrina crossed the coast near the Miami-Dade/Broward border, which would put Miami on the left-hand side of the track, so a direct hit would have occurred if the eye-wall touched the city of Miami. As I haven't found a reference to the size of the eye at that time, I can't tell if that was a direct hit. The NHC's Tropical Cyclone Report on Hurricane Katrina[4] does state,

The convective pattern of Katrina as it crossed southern Florida was rather

asymmetric due to northerly wind shear, which placed the strongest winds and heaviest rains

south and east of the center in Miami-Dade County.

As Katrina did not become a hurricane until just two hours before landfall in Florida, even if Miami took a direct hit for it, it was a minimal Category One storm. In any case, "direct hit" is well defined, and Miami did not take "direct hits" from either Andrew or Wilma, and possibly not from Katrina, either. -- Donald Albury^(Talk) 12:40, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and everything I said above has no effect on what goes into the article, as we can say a hurricane made a direct hit on a place only if we can cite a reliable published source that says so. Anything I said above about whether or not a hurricane was a direct hit on any place is original research. -- Donald Albury^(Talk) 14:35, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

National historic status list

I removed that list as it's unnessarry and those types of bullet point lists are discouraged here. A few of the places are just outside city limits as well. Should be in a seperate subpage at best. Thanks Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 19:54, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Illegal Puerto Ricans?

The article states "Today there are sizable legal and illegal populations of...Puerto Ricans,...". Miami cannot have illegal Puerto Ricans. Remove or rephrase? Mal7798

snow on tropical plants

A snow dusting reportedly covered coconut trees and other true tropical palms in the northern suburbs, an extremely rare event.

I removed the above from the article until it can be properly sourced. -- Donald Albury^(Talk) 12:53, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I always find it odd that people who know nothing about a certain topic decide to edit entries just because they don't think it's true or can't source it, even though they can't proove it ISN'T true. As it so happens to be, yes, it has snowed in Miami: http://www.usatoday.com/weather/resources/climate/2004-12-21-florida-snow_x.htm

I think what he wants sourced is the part about the snow covering coconut trees, not the snow itself. The part about snow itself is still included, but the detail of whether or not it dusted coconut trees is not verified and could or could not be true. -- SmthManly / ^ManlyTalk / ^{ManlyContribs} 02:01, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

History Section Gutted??

History section seems to have lost alot of information. The cached version on google includes many details missing from this current version. Noticable due to the fact that the sentence "After the Second Seminole War ended in 1842, Fitzpatrick’s nephew, William English, re-established the plantation in Miami." references Richard Fitzpatrick, who is no longer in the article.

Fitzpatrick is first referred to in the Google cached version in "In the 1830s, Richard Fitzpatrick bought land on the Miami River from the Bahamians, becoming one of the first and most successful of the permanent white settlers. He operated a successful plantation with slave labor where he cultivated sugar cane, bananas, corn, and tropical fruit. Fort Dallas was located on Fitzpatrick’s plantation on the north bank of the river."

Since I am new at this and there appears to be others with better skill at this, I figure I meention it rather than just blanketly restore all the missing photos and information.

In addition, the William English linked in this article jumps to an illinois congressman that once ran for vice-president. Is this the same person? I see no reference to the plantaion on his page, so it might be a different person altogether.

Note that there is a History of Miami, Florida article that was split off this article. The William English link was probably made by someone who saw they got a blue link and didn't bother to see if it was a valid link. I'll fix it. -- Donald Albury 22:54, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

History of the city's name

What is the origin? Perhaps I missed it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.155.51.134 (talk) 22:27, 12 December 2006 (UTC).

It's named after the Miami River. That article discusses the origin of the term 'Miami'. -- Donald Albury 02:45, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Survey on proposal to make U.S. city naming guidelines consistent with others countries

There is a survey in progress at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (settlements) to determine if there is consensus on a proposed change to the U.S. city naming conventions to be consistent with other countries, in particular Canada.

This proposal would allow for this article to be located at Miami instead of Miami, Florida, bringing articles for American cities into line with articles for cities such as Paris and Toronto.--DaveOinSF 16:47, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

This may be OK for Global cities, but I think it would be a mistake to apply it wholesale. For one thing, which Kansas City gets to be the Kansas City?

Currently, Miami redirects to Miami, Florida, which means Wikipedians have decided that the city of Miami in Flordia is clearly the most important use of the word Miami, much like Dog is the title of the article about the animal and NOT a redirect to Dog (disambiguation), a disambiguation page where one could also choose to click on Dog (zodiac). The proposal would allow the title of the article for the city of Miami in Florida to be Miami. Kansas City is another matter. Currently, Kansas City currently redirects to Kansas City (disambiguation), meaning Wikipedians have decided that no use of the word Kansas City is clearly the more important than any other. Kansas City would continue to redirect to a disambiguation page and articles for Kansas City, Missouri and Kansas City, Kansas would not move.--DaveOinSF 02:25, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

However the proposal would allow U.S. cities to be inconsistent with the vast majority of other U.S. cities and towns, which (with a few exceptions) all use the "city, state" convention. -Will Beback 23:43, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes but Miami is far more significant than most U.S. cities and towns. It is more in line with global cities such as Paris, New York, Chicago, and Toronto than the average, small American town. that needs the city, state article name to distinguish it from other small towns. No other place named 'Miami' could ever match Miami, Florida in significance, and Miami does not need to be titled 'Miami, Florida'.

Climate?

It says in the article that Miami has a temperature range of about 80-low 90s in summer. Is there a source for this, because I recall low 90s-low triple digits every day for weeks. | AndonicO ^{Talk | Sign Here} 13:54, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Let's see: [5], [6], [7], [8] . That's from the first page of hits on Google for 'miami climate summer'. Are you thinking of the heat index, which does indeed get high during the summer? -- Donald Albury 15:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

No, I remember seeing the thermometer in the high nineties almost daily. Maybe it was just an above average summer. Thanks for the links anyways Donald. | AndonicO ^{Talk | Sign Here} 18:31, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

The official temperature is measured by the Weather Bureau at the airport. YMMV with other thermometers. -- Donald Albury 23:20, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, ok. Thanks for the info. | AndonicO ^{Talk | Sign Here} 00:21, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

UHM?!

Miami is beautiful, i invite you to come spend a weekend with me and my family and i'll show you what a beautiful "third world country" i reside in! user:racerboyGTR

Miami is a major city and a third world country in southeastern Florida, in the United States.

I don't know if thats supposed to be a joke, but HONESTLY. People do reports, and use Wikipedia for them. The information is supposed to be factual, and just because you had a bad experience in Miami doesn't mean you need to take your anger out on articles! Miami CAN'T be a third world country. One because it's a CITY, in a STATE, thats in a COUNTRY, and the United States is BY FAR not a third world country. GROW UP.

75.21.200.234 03:30, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

It's vandalism, the largest downfall of Wikipedia, don't take it too personally or seriously, most vandals shoot for this type of reaction because it gives them a kick, just ignore it, remove it, clean it, and move on, or alert a user about it and he or she will change it. Thanks. -- SmthManly / ^ManlyTalk / ^{ManlyContribs} 03:34, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

If you feel that Miami is not a third world country, then perhaps you should take that up with Rep. Tom Tancredo. I assume you haven't read his comments about the city?

I have been to Miami, and it is definatly not third world. I have been to one of those too, there is a major difference; I don't care if one politician said it is, because very simply, it isn't. | AndonicO ^{Talk · Sign Here} 21:19, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I live in Miami. Tom Tancredo is a complete idiot. Third world countries do not have running water, electricity and sewer systems connected to every house. Miami does. They also don't have interstate connected expressways, metrorails, world-class hospitals, shopping malls every few miles, and 900 sq.ft. condo units that sell for half a million USD. Miami does. Also, no other city on the planet has as much skyscraper construction as Miami right now, something like 160 approvals with over 60 actually under construction as this is being typed. Third world status is based on economy and infrastructure, two things Miami is definitely not lacking. In fact, Miami is listed as a World City. I don't see Denver or any other Colorado cities on the list. The fact that there are many foreigners present, some which don't speak English too well is irrelevant. Rep. Tancredo is ignorant and needs to look up the definition of "3rd world". Try talking to a NYC cab driver. Most of them don't know more than 30 words of the English language - look at all the foreigners in NYC, it must be a third world country! - Marc Averette 15:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Move page

I noticed that the Chicago page doesn't come with the state on the name of the article as it was moved several months back. Should we do the same with this article, this is the most well known miami of course and the Miami article already redirects here. Any thoughts. Thanks Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 07:59, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

There is a long and bitter argument about the naming convention for US populated places at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (settlements). I am opposed to making any more exceptions to the current 'comma' convention. -- Donald Albury 11:16, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

There was a major argument about this in the Los Angeles article; it failed. The biggest argument there was that the bot that updates population figures based on US Census data uses the Miami, Florida format, and changing that would mess with that, or something like that, I don't quite rememember but there were many good points against changing it. Either way, I'm for it, but I agree with Dalbury concerning what to do about it. -- SmthManly / ^ManlyTalk / ^{ManlyContribs} 17:06, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Then why don't they change Chicago back to Chicago, Illinois? - Marc Averette 22:24, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I doubt one could discern a consensus to make any change in a US city name either way at this point. As lack of consensus almost always means leaving things as they are, I think the name situation will remain in a stasis until a true consensus emerges. My sense of the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (settlements) is that a majority of the participants favor keeping the current 'comma' convention, but it is certainly not a 'super-majority'. Certainly the numerous polls that have been called have been shouted down, but that may have more to do with a reaction to premature polls called in an attempt to force a decision when most editors feel the time is not right for a poll. -- Donald Albury 00:18, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Nicknames

Anyone know any other nicknames for Miami besides "The Magic City" and "The Gateway of the Americas"? Anyone??? There's gotta be others.

198.138.41.77 23:19, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Other nicknames can be used only if they are supported by reliable sources. -- Donald Albury 12:46, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I found two sources that list "Little Cuba" as a nickname. Who knows if they're reliable?

[9] - Marc Averette 14:22, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Hahahah! Little Cuba? I think that's kind of offensive to the Cuban community. Skillz187 03:46, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, several years ago I heard two women speaking about why one never came and visited the other. One stated "Why don't you ever come down and visit us in Kendall"? The other replied "My husband doesn't like to go south of Cuba". Maybe Broward & Palm Beach County people give it that nickname. I've never heard anyone in Miami call it that though. - Marc Averette 13:26, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I've never heard it in Palm Beach County. -- Donald Albury 21:33, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Subtropical, not tropical, climate

Miami's climate is subtropical, not tropical. There is a distinct difference. See the article on Wikipedia under "subtropical". Aldofern 04:00, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Well according to Köppen classification, the climate of south Florida from Lake Okeechobee south is tropical. Pink = Aw = tropical. No one argues that it geographically lies in the subtropics, but the climate is (according to the source) considered tropical. A place doesn't have to be in the tropics to be "tropical". Key West is a tropical island, yet lies 30 miles north of the tropic of cancer. The word "tropical" according to Oxford is "of or pertaining to the tropics" i.e., tropical flora such as coconut trees, which are not found naturally north of the big lake. In this sense South Florida unarguably "pertains to the tropics". Besides, you can hardly cite Wikipedia as it's own source.

I believe the confusion most likely stems from the fact that South Florida is subtropical (based on location) but the climate is tropical. Classification by place and climate are two different things. The summit of Mt. Kilimanjaro being nearly on the equator is no doubt tropical by place, yet it's covered in snow, so the climate is tundra, not tropical. - Marc Averette 02:43, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I was looking at the numbers, and Miami's climate is indeed a tropical wet-and-dry (Aw) climate (at least at the coast), with the January mean being 67°F (boundary is 65°F). It quickly grades inland to a humid subtropical climate, but you are right. CrazyC83 02:13, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Florida is surrounded by water on three sides, limiting southward movement of cold fronts and thus allowing a tropical climate to exist where it would not otherwise.→ R Young {^yakł_talk} 14:40, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

The Gulf Stream also contributes to the tropical climate, as the east coast from the Keys up to Port Saint Lucie is tropical, yet the west coast cities north of Naples (at 65) fall just short of tropical with Fort Myers having a mean January temp of 63.8. Normal Daily Mean Temperatures of Select Cities - Marc Averette 21:42, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Marina Stadium

Is there a link on this page (perhaps under a different name) for the Marina Stadium? I was hoping to find out some background on it. Jouster  (whisper) 18:44, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Ah, found it! But it definitely needs some love (and a link from the Miami page, IMHO). Jouster  (whisper) 16:35, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Buildout?

Despite predictions of 'population buildout,' we have seen that the city of Miami's population continues to rise, in part through high-rise construction. While true that a lack of city-limit expansion makes a huge population increase unlikely, the city could potentially expand its city limits (if not politically). Legally, the only thing preventing annexation would be if the city were 100% surrounded by incorporated communities, which is clearly NOT the case. Many cities have been prevented from expanding politically, but a change in resident and voter attitude could one day see a city limit expansion.→ R Young {^yakł_talk} 14:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Government

There is no discussion of Miami's form of government. The Miami-Dade page mentions its relationship with the rest of Dade County, but what about Miami? Strong Mayor form? Can we find someone who knows this stuff? Geoffwithers 17:06, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Economy

Someone should update that the "building boom" discussed several times in the article is now well and truly a building BUST as the desire for over-priced condos and such has all but dried up and Miami is leading the United States in real estate woes.

Some news links for reference: http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20670001&refer=&sid=a4qa.rYTWyYA http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2007/7/emw539818.htm http://www.local10.com/news/13721122/detail.html http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2007/07/09/daily3.html Yacoub80 02:29, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Why? The building boom is still ongoing. Construction hasn't stopped on any of the 24 buildings u/c over 500 ft. Perhaps the prices are starting to fall, since many just bought for investments (to flip) - too bad for them. That has nothing to do with the fact that there are 24 towers over 500 ft. still under construction. If construction on a few of them is halted, that would definitely be worth an update. Those paragraphs are just temporary anyway. In a year or two as they all near completion, they will be put in the history section, unless the boom continues and the other 80 approvals are actually built. - Marc Averette 18:51, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

The point made in those articles is that they aren't able to sell units that they are building and thus prices have to come down drastically for any hope to sell them at all. This isn't a problem unique to Miami, though Miami is a prime example of it and is one of the first areas to be hit significantly by the real estate market recession that continues to spread.

The point is economic, not construction related.Yacoub80 01:21, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Update: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/orl-condobust2707aug27,0,2001796.story 216.152.101.66 15:03, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

City commission government?

Is the City of Miami a City commission government? On the official website it says that the city has 5 commissioners. There's a blank spot for government type in the infobox. 74.225.197.63 00:54, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

According to the city charter, it is a "Mayor-City Commissioner Plan" form of government. I went ahead and filled it in. —Gintar77 01:43, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

New Population Estimates

The U.S. Census Bureau released new infromation on April 5, 2007 that places the Miami metro area's population second to Houston's metro area. Check it out.

Fair use rationale for Image:Miamiseal.JPG

Image:Miamiseal.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 21:53, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Music?

What's up with the Music section? It's pretty bad. Any ideas on fixing it? Skillz187 01:52, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I won't throw a WP:SOFIXIT tag at you, but can you be a little more specific? What problems do you see, and how can they be fixed? I don't listen to rap, so I am not familiar with any of the rap artists (except Luther Campbell and 2 Live Crew, who are synonymous), but all of them at least have articles. I cannot think of any major Miami-based artists who are not mentioned. I removed the one redlinked group (if they are important, they'll get an article). If you can fix the problems, go for it. Horologium t-c 02:02, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Miami's population passes 400,000

the City of Miami's population has surpassed 400,000 for the first time according to Census Estimates, an 11% increase since 2000:

[10]link to the census

population change			2000: 363,404	2001: 367,223	2002: 372,207	2003: 375,766	2005: 386,619]	2006: 404,048

Miami managed to add over 1000 people per square mile. Pop density in 2000 - 10,185 pop/sq mile Pop density in 2006 - 11,554 pop/sq mile

According to the latest Census estimates released, as of July 1,2006:

my source [11]

City of Miami's population is 404,048 US Rank is 43rd most populous city up from 48 in 2000 Percentage increase was 11.5%. Estimated Population density is now 11,554 people per square mile. I changed the old figures and added the new data

German Page

Hello, hello,

I would like to revamp the German page of Miami, and would like to have the same column on the right like the English page has. The one on the German page does not look the slightest bit attractive and adding this column would really improve the page.

Could anyone help me with this?

I have a lot of information to add to the German website, and also some great photos of mine, but I don't know how to upload them onto the page. Would someone please explain to me how this works?

Thanks a lot,

Totomitsu

References and citations

I have been going through this page and correctly formatting all of the citations using the {{cite news}} and {{cite web}} tamplates, and I have discovered that some of the references are a little bit less than reliable. Reference (2) is to a blog, reference (6) is a link to a secondary source, which cites a newspaper article as its source (not a direct quote); this is not the proper way to cite such information. Reference (8) is to a site that has been targeted by the WP anti-spam people. One of the references I haven't formatted yet is to something called "Pitchfork Media", and another is a 404 link.

The weather section is hosed. I subbed in a link to The Weather Channel, because the cite I replaced was to a site of unknown reliability; TWC tends to be a reliable source. However, the NWS, in typical government fashion, fixed their site until it was broken and changed their data (which is also linked) from a simple, all-on-one-page sheet, to separate pages for every month, and some of their "unofficial" figures don't square with the stuff from TWC. The record low figures, in particular, are off; the NWS site claims lows in the high 20s for several dates in January and February. There are also a couple of issues with a reference that had nothing to do with the sentence it followed; I have commented it out for now.

Horologium t-c 22:44, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Spanish Speakers

Miami cannot possibly have the largest number of spanish speakers outside Latin America! How can a city of 400,000 have more spanish speakers than cities like LA or New York with populations 10 times bigger and even larger latino population. Probaly percentage wise but NOT raw numbers. The source is also very questionable and not very reliable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.215.29.177 (talk) 05:04, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Palermo is not a sister city

Since all of the relevant edits are coming an unregistered editor, I am not expecting much of a result from this, but I'll post it anyway.

Palermo is not a sister city of Miami.

The citation provided in the sister city section is from the City of Miami government, which is unquestionably the most accurate source on this subject. Palermo is not one of the 10 cities on that list. I would appreciate it if the unregistered editor who continually adds Palermo to the list would please stop doing so. It appears that at one point in the past, Palermo was a sister city, (it shows up on the state of Florida's 2001 list, and is still on the Sister Cities International list), but it is not any longer. SSI does not remove city pairings unless one of the involved cities sends them a request to be delisted. Horologium t-c 16:48, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Miami has the largest Spanish-speaking population in the western hemisphere outside Latin America???

Miami cannot possibly have the largest Spanish speaking population! LA has the largest spanish speaking population in the United States so how would Miami have more!?!? Im gonna go ahead and take that off. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Juelz9 (talk • contribs) 04:37, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Maybe they're counting the Americans, aka Spanish-speaking white people like me who are fluent in Spanish and work amongst them? The people in LA don't seem to make much of an effort. - Marc Averette (talk) 08:13, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

intro is too long

someone fix this -Pwnage8 20:14, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Possible vandalism.

Almost certain this edit is vandalism, but thought I'd check here. · AndonicO ^Talk 11:03, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation of "Miami" in lead

I see that an editor has added this twice now, and it has twice been removed. But I don't see why it shouldn't be there; Chicago, New York City, Boston, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, and most other large American city articles all have pronunciation notes in their first sentences, so why shouldn't Miami's article also do so? What are other editors' opinions on this matter? Cheers, Rai-me 20:34, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

I know at least three different ways Miami is pronounced by different communities. I've even had a disagreement with my uncle about the correct pronunciation (whether the last sound is i or ə), and we were both born and raised in Miami. As far as I'm concerned, there is no 'correct' pronunciation, and I don't think we need several alternative pronunciations listed in the lead sentence. -- Donald Albury 21:12, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Adding more than one, such as with New Orleans, is not a problem. To be consistent with almost all other major American cities, the pronunciation should be added. Rai-me 21:58, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, dictionary.com has this pronunciation for Miami: mahy-am-ee. Don't know if that helps. _{El Greco}^(talk) 01:49, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

de-indent

I've reverted Brandon1978's addition of a pronunciation again, and asked him to discuss this with us here. As background, Brandon1978 has been adding pronunciations to articles about cities all over the world, and has been reverted in several of the articles. His edits are regarded as disruptive by some other editors. His repeated re-adding without any attempt at discussion of something that has been reverted by three (I think) different regular editors of this article certainly does not look good. -- Donald Albury 12:32, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

For the record, Brandon1978 has now added the pronunciation for a fourth time. Rai-me 14:29, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

And I have reverted and blocked him for 24 hours. This question needs to be settled back here, not by edit-warring. -- Donald Albury 15:58, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

I think the IPA spelling should be in the article. Every other big city has it. Skillz187 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 06:01, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

For which pronunciation? The majority of the population of Miami has always been (since ~ 1870 or so) composed of people from somewhere else, or whose parents were from somewhere else. As a result, various groups of residents have had various ways of pronouncing 'Miami'. I don't think there is a 'correct' pronunciation for 'Miami'. The question is whether we can find a consensus for one or more pronunciations to document here, and reliable sources to cite for the pronunciation(s). -- Donald Albury 14:25, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Almost all of the pronunciations for major cities were added by the same editor, on a spree starting a few days before Christmas, so I do not necessarily agree with the sentiment that one is needed here. If we do add a pronunciation, I would suggest using "my-AM-ee, also my-AM-uh" (use the IPA characters), since the first is far more common, but the latter is also acceptable. There may be other pronunciations in use, but they are eccentric and I doubt a valid cite could be found for them. Horologium (talk) 14:33, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I am not sure that we can use these as reliable sources, but inogolo states "my-AM-ee", while the aforementioned Dictionary.com states "mahy-AM-ee, mahy-AM-uh", as mentioned above, also written as "mī-ām'ē, mī-ām'ə". Cheers, Rai-me 14:40, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

As a side note, while Brandon1978 has added pronunciation in many city articles and altered others, many cities had pronunciation before he began the editing spree. See these past versions of New Orleans (a city which also has more than one pronunciation), Chicago, LOs Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Atlanta, Paris, London, Houston and so on. Rai-me 14:53, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe there could be a consensus on this, since a consensus would vary depending on the continent polled. The entire Latin world pronounces it "mee AH mee", whereas the Anglo pronounces it "my AH mee" and older people (like my grandparents) pronounce it "my AH muh". That's 3 ways I'm aware of. Ask the native Americans (where I believe the word originates) and I'm sure you'll hear even more. - Marc Averette (talk) 15:35, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

The Spanish (or, at least, Hernando de Escalante Fontaneda's) spelling of the Calusa/Tequesta/Mayaimi name for Lake Okeechobee was "Mayaimi" (meaning "big water"). Unfortunately, no speakers of those languages are around to ask. -- Donald Albury 15:59, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I think that listing what appear to be the three most common names in the lead, "my-AH-mee", "mee-AH-mee", and "my-AH-muh" (or mī-ām'ē, mē-ām'ē, mī-ām'ə) per Averette would be appropriate. Rai-me 16:15, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

This is a good example of why we shouldn't have a pronunciation. If we start including non-English or non-standard pronunciations of American cities, we will end up with anarchy. Natives of New York often refer to their city as "Noo Yawk", but the pronunciation guide (rightly) ignores that as non-standard English. FWIW, the two pronunciations I suggested were mī-ăm'ē and mī-ăm'-ə, not mī-ām'ē and mī-ām'ə (short 'A' in second syllable, as in cat, not long 'a' as in aim, and the entire syllable rhyming with ram, not bra). mē-ɑ'mē is the "de-Anglicized" version proposed by Averette {ɑ as in hot). I say that we just sidestep the debate entirely; I seriously doubt that anyone who is reading the Wikipedia article needs a guide for a widely-known and intuitive pronunciation. Horologium (talk) 04:25, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I think this alteration works for the article. It differs slightly from the IPA standards in other city-related articles, but I think it fits the prose. Feel free to offer your opinions, but I think it works. CVW (Talk) 20:48, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I made a few adjustments in this edit (namely, moved the external jump to references), but agree that this is a good pronunciation to include. Cheers, Rai-me 21:30, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I made one further refinement. "mī-ām'ē" (as you had originally transcribed it) would be pronounced as "My Amy"; I changed it to "mī-ăm'ē", which is the common (English) pronunciation. (Note the curved diacritic over the 'a'.) Horologium (talk) 03:11, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

We need to provide a new reference (if one is really needed, as no other cities have one), as Dictionary.com oddly supports the "my Amy" (mī-ām'ē) pronunciation. I have since removed the reference, as it does not support the pronunciation given. Cheers, Rai-me 05:21, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I just looked at dictionary.com's entry on Miami (which, BTW, doesn't refer to the city, but rather the Native American tribe that formerly lived in the midwestern US), and it doesn't show the ā pronunciation, either in "spelled pronunciation" or "IPA Pronunciation" mode. Merriam-Webster has essentially the same pronunciations as dictionary.com, both with the same sound as the a in cat. FWIW, both M-W and dictionary.com use "a" without the diacritic to represent that sound (when using the "Spelled Pronunciation"); I have been adding the diacritic for clarity's sake, because the discussions here have been using "ā", which is not the same thing. Horologium (talk) 05:40, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

(de-indent) If you read the entire page of entries, you'll see that while the first entry refers to the tribe, the 2nd and 4th entries are for "a city in SE Florida: seaside resort". And it shows the exact "mī-ām'ē, -ām'ə" pronunciation on the 4th entry. But I agree with you that Miami is clearly not pronounced with an "ā"; the way you have changed it on the article is how it should remain. Cheers, Rai-me 05:48, 1 January 2008 (UTC)