Talk:List of words derived from toponyms

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Why don't you put links here? webkid 21:36 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I think this needs to be better organized. The list of terms sometimes link to the term, and at other times link to the place itself. --seav 04:39, Jul 31, 2003 (UTC)

You are right. I linked a few unlinked terms, but it is not yet completely satisfactory. For example, Siamese now points to Siam, but there is no explanation there why the word is used in the context of twin. Probably explanations need to be added here. -- Viajero 07:32, 31 Jul 2003 (UTC)

What is that Chinese Wall thing? Is it Internet censorship in China? --Menchi 07:36, Jul 31, 2003 (UTC)

No, it is an expression in English. The American Heritage dictionary says: "A barrier, especially one that seriously hinders communication or understanding." You encounter it in various contexts, for example: in investment banking, they say there is a Chinese wall between the consulting and market research groups. At Microsoft they say there is a Chinese Wall between the OS and the apps groups. So, do you believe in fairies too? ;-) -- Viajero 08:38, 31 Jul 2003 (UTC)
I miss the joke(?), what fairies? Mushroom rings? --Menchi 23:18, Aug 1, 2003 (UTC)
I was trying to be ironical: that if one believes in what these companies say, especially MSFT, then perhaps one also believes in the tooth fairy and so on. In other words, it is mostly a pack of lies... -- Viajero 06:19, 2 Aug 2003 (UTC)

This has been said above but I don't think it's clear yet - should the links go to the object under discussion or the source name? I just disambiguated [[American]] to [[United States|American]] but maybe I should have linked it to [[American (cheese)|]] -- sannse 19:44, 31 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I don't think there is a quick and easy answer. For some entries on the list, there is source page which refers to the generalized usage, see for example Bantustan. For others, this doesn't exist yet, so may be an explanatory tag is in order as in the case, for example, Holland: (cotton or linen fabric) Hope this helps. -- Viajero 21:51, 31 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I think the page may be more useful with some sort of standard format - and I think it needs links to both the word and its source. At the moment I see Bible and it leads me to a long article that doesn't explain (as far as I can see) why this is a toponym. Similarly I see Detroit which leads to an article that doesn't tell me the meaning of the word outside its use as a name.

Maybe a table would make it clearer:

WordMeaningSource
CanaryA small songbird Canary Islands
HollandCotton or linen fabric Holland



Of course that would make it more complicated so may be a bad idea.

Perhaps a better format would be something like:

The disadvantage here would be repetitiveness.

I'm just throwing out ideas here, it's an interesting list so it would be good to develop it -- sannse 22:41, 31 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I can agree with you for the table, maybe we should try with this. The only problem will be if it becomes as large as this list. -- webkid 06:24, 1 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Rename[edit]

Unless you're talking about some 18th-century obscure connotation, "toponym" has only one popular meaning, i.e., = place-name. So List of toponyms means List of placenames. The proper titlte should be List of toponym-derived words or List of toponym-derived words and phrases. --Menchi 07:11, Aug 1, 2003 (UTC)

The third edition of the American Heritage Dictionary (1992) defines toponym as:
1. A place name
2. A name derived from a place or region.
-- Viajero 08:13, 1 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Merriam-Webster doesn't have the "derived" definition, and M-W is pretty good on modern usage.
Assuming that AHD is up-to-date, the intro sentences is a paradox, since it basically says, "This is ...toponyms², which are derived from toponyms¹." Very confusing to most ppl don't use ADH.
--Menchi 23:15, Aug 1, 2003 (UTC)

Why not just call it List of placename-derived words. Clear and no ambiguity. --Menchi 17:33, Aug 11, 2003 (UTC)

Well, because we have a word that means that: toponym! Words drift in meaning over time. According to the AHD, which was first American dictionary based corpora work (ie, is is descriptive rather thanprescriptive) it carries that conotation now. -- Viajero 19:03, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)

mythical ＝ ?[edit]

not so happy with the question mark to identify mythical. Makes it seem dubious. Myths may be non-factual, but they are for the most part clearly defined and known as such. What do the others think? -- Viajero 10:49, 1 Aug 2003 (UTC)

What about just putting mythical in brackets after the word. Or maybe it will be fine without once links to both the word and the source are included. The question mark is ambiguous IMO, I don’t think it really works. -- sannse 16:45, 1 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Well they are dubious, mythical places, aren't they? But surely if you meant the word was dubious it what have the word dubious or (?) after it, mythical means a certain thing. Wellingtons are not named after a place called Wellington, any more than Occam's razor is named after a place called Occam - Adrian.

I know wikipedia is not a dictionary, but definitions and examples would definitely be helpful here. orthogonal 19:29, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I plan to remove the contents of the "Elements" section, merge it with Chemical elements named after places and just have the link there. Jay 11:47, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. -- Viajero 12:17, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Need clarifications[edit]

1. The following are place names but I could not find their toponymical meaning:

  • paisley
    • I guess it's the pattern used while weaving shawls Jay 21:59, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  • peoria
    • Maybe the name of a native American tribe Jay 21:59, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
      • It's a city in Illinois, but generally, it refers to some generic Middle American community, as in "Yeah, they love it in L.A., but will it play in Peoria?" Funnyhat 06:49, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

2. Is Peyton Place a real or fictional place ?

3. Is sardine from the name Sardinia ?

I guess so. Jay 21:59, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

4. Trojan is not a verb. So what is "Trojaned" about?

5. Main street - real or fictional place ?

  • There are literally thousands of Main Streets in the United States. It's come to refer to any small town. Funnyhat 06:49, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

6. motown - where's this place ?

7. maus - which meaning and which place?

8. Nuremberg (defense) - what does defense stand for here? Is it the trials ?

9. Seltzer - is there an article abt the place

10. labyrinth - what was the corresponding name of the place and where was it

11. Masada - what does it stand for

12. Manchester - where is the textile article for manchester

13. Beltway - which place is this road system named after ?

  • The highway surrounding Washington, D.C.. It's commonly used in American media ("Inside the Beltway," etc.) Funnyhat 06:49, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

14. Boetian - whats this ??

15. Brazilianization - what does this term refer to ?

  • See Brazilianization - apparently, it's the idea that the white population in the United States will increasingly withdraw from a disjointed society. Funnyhat 07:09, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)


Okay, some more entries that I have issues with, and I think either need clarifying or removing. I'll list these here and see if I can get some agreement before cleaning this up.

As far as I understand it, a toponym is a word named after a place, right? It's seems like this article needs to stick rather more precisely to that definition, or just about anything that has a place-name in it could be listed in here. I've looked on Dictionary.com and the Concise OED {9th edition} to try and get some guidance on what names are used as words. In particular:

  • Acapulco. Is there a word that is named after this place? I don't know of one, and the dictionaries I used don't show one either.
  • Auschwitz. Is this really a word? Yes, it's an event / place name, and it's used as a metaphor for the Holocaust, but is it really a word? I don't see it myself.
  • Berlin Wall. It's the name of a man-made object that was in Berlin. If Berlin Wall is in here, why not the Tower of London, the New York Stock Exchange, the Seattle Public Library etc, etc? I don't think this makes sense unless it's really used as a phrase distinct from being a reference to the wall in Berlin.
  • Georgia. Okay, it's the name of a font produced by Microsoft. I don't think that makes it a word. I reckon there are thousands of commercial products named after places, do we need to list them all?
  • Gibraltar. Dictionary.com says a fortress or stronghold. Is that what was meant here? I'll add this explanation in if so.
  • Nuremberg. Again, is it a word? I don't see it myself.
  • Peoria. The place-name is used as a symbol for middle-America, but I don't think it, in itself, is a word.
  • On the Events/Agreements section I see a similar issue. Presumably we don't really want to list every agreement or event that has a place name in it. Instead I would argue this needs to be for words where the place name itself has become a short-hand or new word for the agreement. So I would argue that "Seattle" is not a toponym and should not be on the list, because I don't think anyone commonly uses "Seattle" to refer specifically to the WTO meeting of 1999. But I think "Bretton Woods" makes sense on the list, I'm sure lots of people use this phrase without even knowing it refers to a place name!
  • I'm also suspicious of including on this list place names that refer to something famous that happened in the place, e.g. My Lai, Hiroshima. Just about every battle of note is named after a place - should these all be listed?

Wow, that all sounds very negative!. I think cleaning this stuff up and the above list would be very helpful though ... Dave w74 21:11, 20 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Move[edit]

I have moved the page under a new heading "List of words derived from toponyms". The previous heading was inappropriate, because the normal meaning of toponym in linguistics and common usage is just 'place-name'. The move had already been proposed in 2003 (s.a.), but opposed by Viajero because toponym supposedly also has the meaning 'a name derived from a place or region'. While this might be the case, such usage is entirely marginal, and would also contradict the contents of the article Toponymy. --AAikio 15:13, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Metonyms[edit]

I cut the following because they are more properly metonyms:

I also cut Bay Street for the same reason. I rm Bantustan because there is no place called "Bantustan". I'm going to move Eden, Utopia, etc to a new section of "Fictional and literary place names". I also started adding cites. --SigPig |SEND - OVER 05:14, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a few cites to the first section. I have also moved legendary/mythical/literary toponyms to a new section, since they aren't real places (if consensus is they should remain in the first section, I have no problem with that). However, I have to cease my travails for a while as my brain has started to shut down for the night. I'll try to continue later, either tomorrow or the weekend. --SigPig |SEND - OVER 06:53, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have restored some of these metonyms under two new headings, Industries and professions and Government agencies. They are just as valid as Skid row (which was originally a nickname for Yesler Way, Seattle) among other metonyms in this article. —Anomalocaris (talk) 21:41, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Issues: Citation style & Notability[edit]

I have added an 'Issues' tag to the page, noting that the citation style should be improved, and that the subject may lack notability. Although most of the items include external links to dictionaries, etymology guides, etc., these could be more efficiently handled in a References section. See WP:IC, WP:REF. It is also not clear how notable this topic is. The list criteria should be made specific, preferably with reliable third-party sources that establish notability cited in the lead section. See WP:Stand-alone lists. Cnilep (talk) 15:52, 2 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Corporations[edit]

All the corporations appear to be Finnish. There are definitely some Japanese corporations named after their hometowns (Toyota for a start), and I assume there are probably some others. Any particular reason they're all Finnish? 95.149.232.139 (talk) 18:34, 3 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lists of things named after places[edit]

I've created an article titled Lists of things named after places, which currently links to eight lists: chemical elements, chess openings, foods and drinks, inventions, mathematical problems, minor planets, (two lists of) other places. Michael Hardy (talk) 17:58, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sodomy[edit]

Currently, the entry for sodomy reads, "Sodomy, forbidden sexual acts — Sodom, Biblical town on the plain of the Dead Sea." This is incorrect, as sodomy means anal sex (and sometimes other non-penile-vaginal sex). It is not forbidden in the majority of developed countries. 185.11.66.147 (talk) 08:56, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Subcategory (name for this?): derogatory toponyms[edit]

By this, I mean a 'toponym plus noun' pair where attributes of the place referred to (or people associated with the place) make the result disparaging, usually to humorous effect. Eg, 'Glasgow kiss' (already included), 'Brixton briefcase' (boombox), 'Jamaican toothpick' (switchblade). It would help collect these if there were a searchable term for them. Skepticaltogether (talk) 23:35, 2 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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