Talk:Comiket

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 14 January 2020 and 1 May 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): DriftWrench2k.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 18:07, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Name

• The event run by Comiket, Inc. seems to be most preferentially called Comic Market. According to the schedule for the venue, Tokyo Big Sight, the event is Comic Market. Comiket, Inc. itself has registered three trademarks, "Comic Market," "Comiket," and "Comike." Colloquially to a Japanese speaker, the three syllable "Comike" comes out most easily. It's probably the most difficult for an English speaker to pronounce. I shouldn't say never, but "CM" isn't one of the common ways to refer to Comic Market. Is this an anglicism that Comic Market itself is oblivious to? A more common shorthand is "C67" to refer to the 67th Comic Market.
  • I agree that "CM" is not commonly used to refer to Comic Market. In fact, if you use this term when speaking to a person living in Japan, it would cause confusion as "CM" (said as a word, sounds like "shi-emu") means "Commercial Message" in Japanese vernacular. (as in those advertisements seen on television) I think this should be removed from the entry. I don't mind referring to Comic Market as "CM" throughout the entry, just the stating of it being a common abbreviation. --202.216.127.39 04:50, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
• Comic Market is not a convention in the American sense. If a convention is about the gathering of people to:
  • Discuss common interests
  • Meet famous people
  • Get autographs
  • Participate in scheduled events

Then Comic Market offers none of them. Comic Market is just a gather to buy and sell dojinshi, or a huge swap meet in other words.

• There's been no counting of how many people attend Comic Market for all 2-3 days, but remember that attendance figure is estimate given in attendee-days. It's not by unique headcount, not that it may matter that much.
• In recent years, summer Comic Market has mostly been a 3-day event, while winter Comic Market has been 2 or 3 days, going onto 3 full days (Winter Comic Market 2004 is 2 days). Comic Market is not full a 3-day event, for now.
• Up until recent years when Comic Market made it a high profile agenda to educate its participants, tax evasions by major and minor dojinshi publishers was rampant. When you consider that some major dojinshi publishers were counting on Comic Market sales to finance their livelihood, you do realize that for some, Comic Market was all about selling massive amounts of dojinshi for profit.
• While the vast majority of Comic Market staffers are volunteers, there is a handful of Comiket, Inc. people who make their living off Comic Market. This does not negate the fan nature of Comic Market, but it also shows that the need for a profitable Comic Market is also there.
• In a not-at-all-secret effort to create de facto legitimacy from the anime, manga, and game industries ("dojinshi = illegitimate exploitation of intellectual property"), Comic Market started to solicit for corporate booths a few years ago. It's been a resounding success, and companies now voraciously market and sell merchandise at Comic Market. The notion that corporate manga publishers are not allowed to participate in Comic Market is obsolete by at least 5 years.
• The ban on cosplay photo taking going into effect in 2005 should be for unregistered cameras.--Outis 11:41, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• What is the source on the cosplay photo ban? The official website doesn't have any mention of it.
  • Comic Market's official website doesn't say much compared to the rules spelled out in the catalog. The rules in the catalog is but a subset of the rules listed in the cosplayer's handbook and the photographer's handbook they distribute at site. That's still not everything compared to the things a staffer will tell you orally.--Outis 08:35, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• どう考えてもコミックマーケットが正式名称でコミケットは愛称でしょうが。常軌を逸しているわ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.221.16.58 (talk • contribs) 16:22, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
• ^頑なに同人即売会を「fan convention(ファンが有名人や互いと合うためのイベント)」と書いてるし、正式名称であるコミックマーケットを認めようとしないし、ソースは全部欧米の無知な連中が書いたクソ記事な上、これらを修正しようとすると「英語ではこうなってるから」「POVだ」「日本のソースは信用できないからこのクソサイトを使う」って言ってくる。CrunchyrollだのANNだの白人の遊び場のクソ記事を読んだだけで同人活動歴15年の俺より詳しいつもりだぞこいつら。末期だわここ。2404:2D00:5000:701:C9DC:9734:2BA1:C3C5 (talk) 23:38, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
  • Rough translation: They stubbornly refer to sokubaikai as a "fan convention" (an event for fans to meet celebrities and each other), refuse to acknowledge the Comic Market by its official name, all of their sources are shitty articles written by ignorant people in the West, and when you try to correct them they say "that's how it is in English", "it's POV", "Japanese sources are unreliable so we use this shitty site". They think they know more than me with 15 years of doujin experience just by reading shit on Crunchyroll, ANN and other white people's playgrounds. That's it for me here/This place is dying (not sure how to translate that last one). --Thibaut (talk) 02:49, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

What I am saying is, Wikipedia has learned nothing from the Scots Wikipedia fiasco. This "community" continues to drive away people who actually know things about topics, refusing to allow them to make any meaningful change, while indulging nonsense rules and guidelines which just let ignorant people spread their ignorance. In the Scots Wikipedia the users who did not understand the language at all reverted changes made by actual Scots and kept adding nonsense and that is the exact same pattern seen in Japanese topics all over English Wikipedia. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Large_scale_language_inaccuracies_on_the_Scots_Wikipedia 2404:2D00:5000:701:1C95:F47C:7CF3:5132 (talk) 09:45, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

• Wikipedia maintains a policy of naming articles after their most commonly recognized name. This article is listed at "Comiket" and not "Comic Market" for the same reason the 42nd president is listed at "Bill Clinton" and not "William Jefferson Clinton". Separately, the English Wikipedia maintains a policy of naming articles based on how reliable English-language sources refer to the article's subject, where "Comiket" is overwhelmingly used as the shorthand for this event over "Comike". It would be one thing if English sources commonly referred to this event with a mistranslated or misattributed name like "Comic Land" or whatever, or if this was a yaoi/boys' love situation where the crux of the issue is that common use of the term has evolved separately in English and Japanese use, but "Comiket" is a name commonly used to describe this event in both English and Japanese use. Morgan695 (talk) 16:56, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

• "Comiket" is not commonly used in Japanese. As I pointed out before: "コミックマーケット has 10 million hits, コミケ has 30 million, コミケット has less than 300K". And most of the Comiket hits are not even examples of people using the word to refer to Comic Market, they are referring to Comiket Special which is its own separate event where Comiket is part of the official name. Anyone who understands Japanese and knows even the slightest bit about the topic knows this. That is why Japanese users bring it up, and why 123.221.16.58 comments on how ridiculous the situation is. The approach you are taking, not limited to you or limited to this article, is precisely the sort of problematic behavior I mentioned before, in which editors of Japanese topics who do not understand Japanese or even have a basic amount of knowledge about the topic constantly dismiss everything Japanese users who actually do know things about the topic bring up. I want to point out that for factual accuracy I edited the opening statement to read "also known as Comike (コミケ, Komike) in Japanese, and Comiket (コミケット, Komiketto) in English" and this too was reverted by someone claiming "POV". 2404:2D00:5000:701:C501:6495:5BC:9072 (talk) 02:28, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

• Like I said below, search comparisons are typically not considered accurate, especially for a generic term like "comic market" which is inevitably going to pick up false drops; per WP:DIVIDEDUSE, Search-engine hits are generally considered unreliable for testing whether one term is more common than another, even when they suggest that no single term is predominant in English. I didn't revert the edit you referenced, but the phrasing you've provided implies that "Comike" is never used in English and "Comiket" is never used in Japanese, which is plainly not accurate. I see no problem with the current phrasing of the lead, which indicates that "Comic Market" is the official name for the event while "Comiket" and "Comike" are the more commonly-used shorthand for the event, with "Comiket" taking precedence as the name that is most generally common in English. Morgan695 (talk) 02:45, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

Sockpuppeting using mobile IP addresses won’t help your case.

About the name, even the Comic Market itself uses “Comiket” and コミケット in its logo so I don’t see what the problem is. コミケット/Comiket was also used on the cover of the official catalogs in the 80s.

In Japanese, most people refer to the event as コミックマーケット (“Comic Market”) or コミケ (“Comike”), while コミケット (“Comiket”) is less common today, it is still used (Yahoo! News; https://twitter.com/search?q=%22コミケット%22&src=typed_query&f=live (NSFW)) and it’s mentioned in the Daijisen, Daijirin and Encyclopedia Nipponica ([1][2]), as for the English-speaking world, most people refer to it as “Comiket”, probably because “comic market” is too generic, that’s why per WP:COMMONNAME, the article is called “Comiket”.

As for コミケット, given the sources above (especially the Nipponica), I don’t see any reason to remove it from the lead. --Thibaut (talk) 16:35, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

I gave up on any form of discourse on this topic a long time ago. I am only commenting to respond to Thibaut's baseless accusation of sockpuppeting. I did no such thing, and, given how this is an extremely serious accusation, consider this to be a personal attack. I am posting this comment to bring attention to this, just in case this is recurring behavior on their part with other victims. 2404:2D00:5000:701:654D:B89E:48C6:F644 (talk) 12:34, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Curiosity Question

Why is the print directory a "Not-to-bring" item? Where did this...practice come from? Trent Arms 06:29, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

My answer: When I originally wrote the beginning portions of the CM FAQ (before contributing the condensed version to Wikipedia) I had a few Comikes under my belt. My feeling was that adequate preparation should be done ahead of time using the catalog at home to make maps, etc. to avoid lugging it around the convension (in addition to the doujinshi one would presumably purchase.) Obviously, there is no right or wrong to attending a convention - but having done both, I felt this was an appropriate decision. Ben Her 09:14, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Lining up

Just wondering...the article references the supposed ban on lining up for the convention is forbidden, but is this actually enforced? I only have 2 Comike under my belt, both in 2004, but while we were all aware that our lining up like that was technically against the law, there was no enforcement (hell, if anything, there was full co-operation) of that by the police or by the convention staff. Or is this ban just on lining up on the days before the event, as suggested later on in the article? That much I suppose would make sense, seeing that the lines didn't seem to build or get organised until around midnight on either event. --Mukashi 03:30, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

• According to a staffer I talked to at this year's event, "It's a big island." They have security guards who will shoo people away from Big Sight itself until about 6:30AM, but as far as the rest of Odaiba, they can't stop people from lying in wait. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.102.39.179 (talk) 02:13, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

Genshiken?

Given that Comiket features heavily in the manga/anime series Genshiken, does it deserve a mention under a heading of "Comiket in Popular Culture"? David Bailey (talk) 13:42, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

No. Because such section are nothing more then a collection of crap. --Farix (Talk) 16:38, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

eytomology

The eytomology of the word should be explainedCurb Chain (talk) 02:12, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

I believe the etymology is just a shortening of "komikku maaketo". 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 23:59, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Date

The article mentions a date for the upcoming comiket, but I can't find it on the official site. Where does this date come from? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.195.66.217 (talk) 08:21, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

The dates are listed here. —HigherFive (t | c) 09:38, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Venue

What was the original venue? And how long has it been at the current venue (Tokyo Big Sight)? Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 16:01, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

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Comiket's Goals

Should a section be added to describe what Comiket's stated goals/purpose are? — Preceding unsigned comment added by DriftWrench2k (talk • contribs) 19:05, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

Further Reading links

"Ticktank's English Guide to Comiket" and "The Road to Comiket" seem to be ancient blog posts by some random anonymous people, should they really be there? "Swarm Effect" is a Youtube video likewise uploaded by some anonymous user, that claims it is a video of "Black Friday in Japan". These seem highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. 2404:2D00:5000:701:FCA2:DD7:6AAA:86AE (talk) 19:58, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

It's safe to say neither "Ticktank's English Guide to Comiket" nor "The Road to Comiket" qualify as a reliable sources, but per WP:ELMAYBE, "Sites that fail to meet criteria for reliable sources yet still contain information about the subject of the article from knowledgeable sources" are permissible to include as external links. Anecdotal, but when I attended Comiket a few years ago I discovered Ticktank's guide through this article, and it proved to be extremely useful in planning my trip; when I cleaned up the article a few years ago, I pruned the external links but decided to keep both of those guides. I do agree that the "Swarm Effect" video is not useful due to the misattribution you've noted, and should be replaced by a video that correctly identifies the phenomenon as occurring at Comiket. Morgan695 (talk) 20:33, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by "phenomenon" here: This is not something naturally occurring, the Comic Market staff manage the queues meticulously. This is not swarm behaviour. If that is the sort of misconception the link is perpetuating then it should definitely be removed. 2404:2D00:5000:701:2CA6:8376:22F9:67D8 (talk) 02:02, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

I meant moreso a video showing crowd control/crowd logistics at Comiket. Also re: Comiket/Comike, it's not strictly accurate to do a hits comparison, since a search for "Comic Market" is inevitably going to pick up other comic book conventions/events that have nothing to do with the subject of this article. This event is overwhelmingly referred to as "Comiket" in English-language sources, and barring any sudden shift in language use, is how it should be referred to in the article. Morgan695 (talk) 18:46, 1 January 2022 (UTC)