Talk:Administrative divisions of Saint Petersburg

Moved from User talk:Ezhiki

Thanks for russian transliteration. Unless you can produce some more information than just the list of those raions, I don't see a reason to create separate page for St. Petersburg administrative areas. I am finishing the district map right now, so that will clarify the picture a lot more. Some places quote 21 raions, some quote 20, do you for sure the number of raions? I could only find a list of 20 raions from SPB official pages.

Yes, there are only 20 as of 2004 (this is per OKATO—Russian administrative classificator).

As for creating a page, please take a look at, for example, Administrative divisions of Bashkortostan, and let me know if you want me to produce a similar page for St. Petersburg. The article will have the lists of administrative entities (not just the districts), as well as information on subordination. The layout will be the same.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 18:41, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)

Ah, you were very quick in creating that administrative divisions page for st. petersburg, thank you! I uploaded the districts map into that article. I am not sure if it should be uploaded to st. petersburg main page as well without the district numberings. Also I could enlarge the thumbnail version of the map, so that the numbers could be seen without the need to enlarge that image. Tell me what you think. Moscow could use similar district map too. -- Huopa

Hey, that's a great map, thanks! Say, would it be possible to renumber the districts on the map to match the order in which they are listed in the article (so the bulleted list can be replaced with the numbered list)? It is, of course, possible, to rearrange the list to match the map, but I think keeping the list in the alphabetical order as it is now is probably a better solution. Anyway, let me know what you think.

As for Moscow, if you can create a similar map, I will certainly be able to compile an article on administrative division of the city to go along with it.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 14:45, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)

Yes, I can try. In fact, I thought of that at first, but the four smallest districts in the downtown are so small also in map that two-digit numbers can hardly fit there. I will see today if it looks good or not. -- Huopa

One problem came... what is that Lisi Nos district? I couldn't find it, but if we number the list, it will be assigned a separate number, so .. otherwise the alphabetical numbering works fine. -- Huopa

Lisy Nos is not a district, it's a municipal settlement. Either you or me accidentally misaligned it in the list (which is no surprise considering the hierarchy structure). Anyway, I made the correction to the list—now there are 20 districts in the list as there should be. If you could renumber the districts in the map one more time, that'd certainly be much appreciated. Thanks a lot for your help and cooperation!—Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 14:51, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)

Ok. I renumbered again and reuploaded both thumbnail and the big map. -- Huopa

corrections to district map

I have been a little busy with family lately, so I just noticed the district map has been removed. I didn't really get what was wrong with it, if somebody (Ezhiki?) could elaborate what should be changed, I could try to fix it so we could get it back online. Thanks. -- Huopa 19.03.2006

The reason I commented the map out is that recently two of the city districts (namely Lomonosovsky and Pavlovsky) were abolished. There is a textual description of the change (in Russian, of course), but I have so far been unable to locate a new map. Since I don't know for sure if the districts were merged with other districts wholesale, of if they were partitioned, correcting the existing map may not be all that easy. I guy in the Russian wiki is trying, I believe, to create a new map based on the textual description. I'll post a note here when there is more information.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 17:22, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Textual descriptions have been added to respective Talk pages for all St.Petersburg districts in ruwiki. Some maps are still to be corrected. --213.170.65.38 14:15, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Table/Allignment issues

Overlap

Hello there. I'm running Mac OS 10.4 here at 1440x900, and whether I'm using Firefox or Safari, there seems to be an issue with two images and a table overlapping. I'm not that great with wikicode, so I was wondering if someone could help clean this up. Thanks. Tokugawapants 02:01, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation and especially for the screenshot. I can't fix it myself (I don't use Macs, and there is no overlapping in the browsers I use (Opera and IE, incl. mobile versions). If someone else wishes to tackle this, please note that the article layout overall is pretty lousy and that any suggestions as to how to improve it are quite welcome.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 18:32, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Krasnogvardeysky District

I was planning on translating the Russian wikipedia's article on this district, but I noticed a number of discrepancies between the two on what okrugs belong to it and I was wondering if anyone has any more specific information as to which one is more up-to-date? I'll translate the article Krasnogvardeysky District, Saint Petersburg after I get a response about this. Thanks! -Yupik 08:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

The discrepancies are due to the fact that the Russian Wikipedia builds on the structure of municipal districts, while the English Wikipedia deals with administrative ones. The borders of administrative and municipal districts and their divisions usually match, but the terminology is different. Please see subdivisions of Russia#municipal divisions for more details.

In this case, the names of okrugs come from different primary sources (en-wiki uses OKATO, while ru_wiki—OKTMO), which at this time contradict one another on several points (such as, in this case, names of some municipal okrugs). For sake of consistency, please use the names of okrugs as they are given in administrative divisions of Saint Petersburg. Thanks.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Just so you don't get confused, "Bolshaya Okhta" refers to "Municipal Okrug 33" (neither OKATO nor OKTMO have yet been amended to include the new name), while "Porokhovye" refers to "Municipal Okrug 35" (OKATO lists it as "Porokhovye" while OKTMO still uses "#35"). The other three match.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:39, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Beautiful, thanks! -Yupik 19:49, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

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Differences

Could it be explained somewhere on the page what the municipal difference is between settlements, cities/towns, and okrgus? --Criticalthinker (talk) 08:50, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

The differences are primarily historical. It's not unlike trying to explain differences between Russian oblasts and krais—there hardly are any. I guess the simplest explanation would be that the cities/towns/settlements at some point used to be inhabited localities on their own right just outside St. Petersburg (Leningrad, Petrograd) before being incorporated, while most okrugs are historical areas within the city, or annexed territories previously organized into selsoviets or similar. This kind of an explanation is not something that's easy to reference, unfortunately. And looking from the point of municipal governance, there aren't any differences whatsoever (unlike, say, with the urban and rural settlements elsewhere in Russia)—the local self-government of a municipal settlement has the exact same rights and responsibilities as the local self-government of a municipal okrug.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); April 17, 2017; 12:02 (UTC)

That last part is essentially what I asked about. I'm not much interested in the history, whether there is any difference in local governance between the types of municipalities. Apparently, the only difference is the name. I guess my only thing was that perhaps it would be worth adding a sentence to say this in the article. --Criticalthinker (talk) 14:58, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

It's certainly worth adding, it's just that finding a reference to support such a statement is notoriously difficult, since it's something blatantly obvious in the Russian context (and hence not deemed worthy of an explanation) but not, of course, in the context of the English-language encyclopedia. Even the law on the territorial structure of St. Petersburg does not explicitly say "there is no difference between municipal okrugs/settlements/cities/towns"; it simply refers to them all as "municipal formations" and describes their aspects as a whole.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); April 20, 2017; 13:22 (UTC)