Talk:Sanation

Old discussion

Sanacja, as far as I am concerned was never nationalitic party. It was not even formalize party, and for sure the slogan ("one...") is nonsense. As far as I am concerned, Pilsudski after his activity in PPS, never found another political party. The official party of Sanacja period, was called OZON.

Please provide proved for your thesis AM

• Sanacja was a socialist party with a nationalist background. It was never purely nationalist, true, but like most parties in European countries during the interwar period it utilized nationalistic slogans for public support. If you question the information on Sanacja, or its founder Jozef Pilsudski, you can refer to such books as "Europe" by Norman Davis, "Bitter Glory" by Watt, or "Drugiej Rzeczypospolitej poczatki" by Andrzej Garlicki. There are also some references on Yahoo! and on Google, but they are less informative. As for the parties current status, there is no real way that I can prove to you that we exist which would be satisfactory to everyone on here. I did not realize that adding a reference to our small party would generate so much vocalization for censorship. Sanacja 02:10, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)
  • Sorry chap, I have read original print of Jozef Pilsudski. He was not a nationalist in traditional meaning of this word. If you want to create a new party, why you try to convince anybody, that this is the same party as it was in 1926??
  • From the information that I have seen on both Pilsudski and Sanacja, it was nationalistic in nature. Maybe your definition of Nationalism and ours are different. Its purpose was to advance the Polish nation, and specifically to protect it from the threats of its aggressive neighbors. Pilsudski only wrote on his campaign against the Russians, and some patriotic poetry, both of which are very nationalistic in nature. Not sure what else to tell you. Sanacja 02:18, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Perhaps the article would be more generally acceptable if it focused primarliy on the historical party, giving detailed verifiable facts, dates, names, etc. Then a note that there is a Modern Sanacja party that holds the same ideals as the historical party. Then you could put details about the modern party in the modern article. Seperating the two is likely to cause far less controversy. AQBachler 04:07, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

• That is actually a good idea, thank you. I will do this. Hopefully it will clear up the confussion and stop the arguments. Thanks again Sanacja 04:09, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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I really hope that the changes I made will resolve any disputes that were out there. All this information, with the exception of the last sentance of coarse, is translated from "Encyklopedia Popularna PWN." If you think it is innaccurate please write to them, not me. Sanacja 04:58, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

A clarification: This page is written by me and not copied from "Encyklopedia Popularna PWN". The dates and facts are translated from that source however, as well as the cited sources above, in response to prior requests for citations. There is no reason to consider it an infringement of any copyright laws since it is an original text, check the Encyklopedia Popularna PWN if you don't believe me. Sanacja 16:41, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I removed the copyvio notice, in the light of your arguments. theresa knott 14:43, 4 Dec 2003 (UTC)

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Made some changes to clarify and remove the NPOV dispute. Simple google search provides verification of info, or check http://wiem.onet.pl/wiem/00fc84.html Katarzyna 02:25, 21 Feb 2004 (UTC)

This page needs cleanup

Really, I mean it. I removed the "Nationalist" from the header since it was everything but nationalist. It was, just like Pilsudski himself, unionist, which meant that it promoted all national minorities as long as they stayed loyal to the state. It was nationalistic only as long as the term "Poles" was applied to all the inhabitants of Poland. Other usage is misleading.

Also, it's hard to call Sanacja a political party. Since it was totally informal ('though the people involved were widely known as its members), it was more of a political movement. It never had a statute, council or never participated in any elections. There is a huge difference between sanacja, BBWR and OZON. [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 00:59, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC)

Sanacja or Sanation

Sanation just reads weird to me though maybe it doesn't bother folks without the historical background, looking for new info. I think 'Sanacja', without the italics would be better throughout the article.radek (talk) 00:22, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the original name. Translation is rare and just sounds strange to anybody read up in the topic.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 00:51, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Sounds too much like sanitation. Sanacja certainly is the far predominant usage. (OK, I admit, I did a Google search.) —PētersV (talk) 00:56, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

The Polish "Sanacja" derives from the Latin "sanatio" ("healing"). The English cognate is "sanation," which, though not common in usage, is the Latin-derived equivalent to the Polish "sanacja" and to the Germanic-derived "healing." "Sanation" is used in English in certain contexts, and related words include "sanative," "sanatory," "sanitarium," "sanity," "sanitary," "sanitize," "sanitate" and, yes, "sanitation."

Rendering "Sanacja" in English as "Sanation" has the advantage of suggesting the intent of the Polish term, which is otherwise opaque and unpronounceable to non-Poles. Nihil novi (talk) 06:23, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, the intent is explained in the lead, as is the proper pronunciation. And "Sanation" just reads weird and in fact I think can confuse readers (it confused me initially - "what is this "Sanation" and what was its relationship to the Sanacja?" - I thought to myself). Polish isn't the only language where the "j" is pronounced as an "ee" (or whatever) and anyone with a marginal background in the topic should be able to pick up on that. Additionally "Sanacja" seems to be the term used in scholarly work. I guess we could always spell it the old-fashioned Polish was as "Sanacya" or something but that might be going a bit far.radek (talk) 18:41, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Radek, I share your attachment to authentic Polish names. I am still pained by our earlier failure to defend Poland's "Kazimierz" kings from anglicization to "Casimir." But I think we often do both our readers and Poland a disservice when, on the English Wikipedia, we stick with a Polish expression when there is a perfectly good English equivalent. I doubt that it would be better if "Castle Square, Warsaw," were "Plac Zamkowy w Warszawie" or if "Presidential Palace, Warsaw," were "Pałac Prezydencki w Warszawie."

Moreover, on the English Wikipedia nearly all Polish political parties and quasi-political organizations appear under English-language versions of their names—e.g., "Polish Socialist Party" ("Polska Partia Socjalistyczna") and "National Democracy" ("Narodowa Demokracja").

We are writing not just for specialist historians but for general readers, and for most of the latter it is not "Sanation" but "Sanacja" that will look "weird." Nihil novi (talk) 06:49, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Can you show some instances where this word is in fact translated? Google Books, preferably? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 05:20, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Self-answer: while sanation is used, sanation+Poland gives 348 results whereas sanacja+Poland, 6,380 results. The original name does seem much more common. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 15:38, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Name

Bringing this up again: "Sanation" just sounds weird. In English and of course in Polish. The spell checker underlines it in red. I think it'd be much better to have this under "Sanacja" and provide what is essentially the right English translation, something like "cleaning up".Volunteer Marek 00:38, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

"Sanacja" sounds weird in Polish, too. The English-language "sanation", while also not commonly used (hence it may indeed appear underlined in an uninformed spell checker), derives from the same Latin noun, "sanatio" ("a healing"; see also the Latin verb "sanare", "to heal"), as does the Polish "sanacja".

The fact that the Polish cognate term, "sanacja", is uncommon ("weird") in Polish is illustrated by the suggestion of an otherwise educated Pole to define "sanacja" as "cleaning up" rather than "(an act or program of) healing".

I don't think much is to be gained by perpetuating such misinformation, either among Polonophones or among Anglophones. Nihil novi (talk) 02:43, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

The Polish word "sanacja" is defined identically as "ł[aciński]: uzdrowienie" ("L[atin]: healing") in Słownik wyrazów obcych (Dictionary of Foreign Expressions), New York, Polish Book Importing Co., 1918 (8 years before Józef Piłsudski's May 1926 Coup d'État), p. 701; and in M. Arcta słownik wyrazów obcych ([M[ichał] Arct's Dictionary of Foreign Expressions), Warsaw, Wydawnictwo S. Arcta, 1947, p. 313.

Słownik wyrazów obcych PWN (PWN Dictionary of Foreign Expressions), Warsaw, Państwowe Wydawnictwo Naukowe, 1971, p. 665, defines the expression as follows: "sanacja <łac. sanatio = uzdrowienie> (sanation, from Lat[in] sanatio = healing) 1. w Polsce międzywojennej — obóz Józefa Piłsudskiego, który pod hasłem uzdrowienia stosunków politycznych i życia publicznego dokonał przewrotu wojskowego w maju 1926 r.... (1. in interwar Poland, the camp of Józef Piłsudski, who worked a military coup in May 1926 under the banner of healing politics and public life...) 2. rzad[ko używany]: uzdrowienie, np. stosunków w jakiejś instytucji, w jakimś kraju. (2. rare[ly used]: healing, e.g., of an institution, of a country.)"

Nihil novi (talk) 07:49, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Lemma must be Sanacja. Maikel (talk) 09:23, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Logo

Did Sanacja have a logo or a slogan? Maikel (talk) 09:26, 20 August 2018 (UTC)