Talk:Noon Universe

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Old talk[edit]

(What exactly are the relations of Snail on the Slope and the Noon Universe? Personaly, I don't see any. One of the variants of this story (with different set of characters) called Bespokojstvo shares some characters with the Noon Universe.) (note by User:Misha Stepanov)

  • I never actually read the "Snails on the Slope". The list came from the writer's official website (I think) --Strannik 04:21, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

There are two variants of "Ulitka na sklone", see, e.g., http://rusf.ru/abs/books/uns00.htm and http://rusf.ru/abs/books/b00.htm . The first one is canonic text of it, the history of the 2nd variant (that at least has connections with the Noon Universe because of overlaping characters) can be read at the beginning of http://lib.ru/STRUGACKIE/bespokoj.txt or in http://rusf.ru/abs/books/bns-04.htm . BTW, the external link on the "Noon_Universe" page that is http://eressea.ru/portal/mpol/index.shtml mentions "Bespokojstvo" as a part of the Noon Universe (another external link should be changed as chronicle of XXII century, not of the Noon Universe, since it does not cover "Zhuk v muravejnike", "Paren' iz preispodnej" i "Volny gasyat veter").(Wirtten by User:Misha Stepanov.)

  • Perechitay yesho raz. Cobyitiya "Zhuka v muravejnike" tam opisanyi. Naschot "Parenya iz preispodneja" ya ne uveren. V lyubom sluchai, ya dumayu choto nasvaniye "History of Noon Universe" vpol'ne aktual'noye. Besides, eysli miy ego ostavim kak "chronicle of XXII century", nekto ne poymyot k chemu eto. --Strannik 02:05, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Yes, in "chronicles of the XXII century" there are some events from "Zhuk v murvejnike", although not all of them, but some prehistory. There is no a word about Lev Abalkin. What bothers You about "Paren' iz preispodnej"? Note that "Obitaemyj ostrov" also is not covered by "chronicles" (and "Popytka k begstvu", and "Bespokojstvo", but here one can argue, that the events are minor, also didn't found anything about "Dalyokaya raduga"). About the relevance of "History of the Noon Universe" naming, I would certainly prefer the name that is at least technically correct. If someone doesn't understand what is the relation between XXII century and the Noon Universe, it means only that the person didn't read the article (so, doesn't care). Also, I think that the external link should look correct, since it is not required that the link would be about the Noon Universe in general, but of course should have some relation to it. Misha Stepanov 21:43, 2005 Apr 6 (UTC)
    • I have no problem with Paren' iz preispodnej. You were the one who brought it up. I never read "Dalyokaya raduga". so I have no idea if the "Chronicles" refer to it or not. I'll take your world. As for the name of the link, all I care about is that the name somehow reflects that it contains history about some events of Noon Universe. --Strannik 23:08, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • My bad, didn't notice "next page" button on http://www.rusf.ru/abs/english/e-22-0.htm page. Thus it covers "Obitaemyj ostrov", and "Zhuk v muravejnike", and "Dalyokaya raduga", and "Popytka v begstvu", and "Volny gasyat veter". The text of external link that contains "history of the Noon Universe" is OK with me now. Misha Stepanov 03:25, 2005 Apr 7 (UTC)

Please sign yor posts. Mikkalai 18:06, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Please don't forget that Noon Universe is not author's notion. What is and what is not is a matter of agreement of fans, not of some scientific research. Anyway, please keep in mind wikipedia's policy about original research and WP:NPOV. It is not our job to define what is and what is not. If some book is listed somewhere as from "Noon Universe", so be it. If there is a disagreement, describe it, but not take sides. Mikkalai 18:06, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

  • Actually, while it was not originally the authors' concept, they (well, at least the surviving brother) don't seem to have a problem with it.--Strannik 02:05, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • What I meant to say is that if it were Strugatski's concept, then we had to take their word for it and no further fantasies. In our case however, critics are free to arbitrarily extend the scope, e.g., claiming "similarity in style", whatever, in addition to direct overlaps of people, events, places. Mikkalai 07:46, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • "Многие наши читатели никак не желают поверить или принять, что АБС никогда не ставили перед собою цель написать "сериал" о Мире Полудня. Каждая вещь этого цикла задумывалась и писалась нами, как произведение совершенно отдельное и независимое - мы просто использовали уже готовый антураж, готовые декорации, в которых так удобно было разыгрывать все новые и новые истории." — from online interview with B. Strugatsky, http://rusf.ru/abs/int0001.htm . Nevertheless, there are common features in some of ABS' stories, and some (ephemeral) object like "the Noon Universe" just exists. About the agreement — OK, could You provide a link to material, where "Ulitka na sklone" (not its variant called "Bespokojstvo") is considered by some group of fans to be in the Noon Universe? Misha Stepanov 21:43, 2005 Apr 6 (UTC)
    • No, I can't. Nor do I intend to. It's fine as it is right now--Strannik 23:08, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

A question...[edit]

Would it be a copyright violation if I added the brief chronology of XXII century to the article? I am not quite sure whether it has been ever published in English... --Koveras 15:43, 21 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

    • So long as you don't copy the text directly, no, not at all. (BTW, there is a link to the rough English translation of it at the links section of this page) --Strannik 20:43, 21 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • No-no, I mean the other one.The link is to the "XXII Century: Expirience of Chronology" by Michael Shavshin. I mean the one in the beginning of every volume of "Wolrds of Strugatsky Brothers" called "XXII Century: Brief Chronology". It was published in Russian, but never in English (AFAIK). --Koveras 11:25, 23 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • Ah, that one. Sure, davay. Like I said, as long as you don't copy-paste it directly, you should be fine. --Strannik 15:51, 23 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The Time Wanderers[edit]

Hello, everybody. :) I just wanted to say that we need to coordinate our actions... What will be the "canonical" translation of "Волны гасят ветер": "Waves Put Out Wind" or "The Time Wanderers"? I mean, what is the article's name going to be? --Koveras 18:04, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I just started it as The Time Wanderers, because that's the title that it's published under in English. I know it's not even a translation of the russian title, and I'm not sure at all what "Time Wanderers" really refers to. Perhaps you russians (I'm not) could write something about that in the article. I'll put a redirect on Waves Put Out Wind. By the way, in my English version of the book, the sentence reads "The Waves Extinguish the Wind", which I think sounds a bit better. --Staecker 19:48, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
A new english translation went on sale today under the title The Waves Extinguish the Wind. It even contains an afterword by Boris Strugatsky that specifically talks about coming to that title. Since this new translation is the only one currently in print, and since the earlier English translation's title does not reflect authorial intentions, I think it would make sense to move the English wiki page into this title. Las1817 (talk) 00:27, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Luden?[edit]

Should the Luden be listed as a race? IMHO they should. --Staecker 19:52, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Are mutants of Saraksh listed as an extra race? :) I'd say we consider them a sub-group of Earth's humans. :) --Koveras 08:43, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The section may easily be renamed into "Races and ethnoses"; also, it would be good to have this list supplied with summaries. mikka (t) 15:59, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Images[edit]

They would be nice. Some book covers, perhaps?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 00:17, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Global template[edit]

Considering how ugly the two templates look together in the Beetle in an Anthill article, I'd say we create a new nav-template, one that will contain not only the novels but also planets, personalities and so on (similary to {{.hack//TEMPLATE}}, {{Firefly}} and {{Vampirechronicles}}). Since such templates are usually placed at the bottom of the page, it should deal with the problem of looks. :) If no one objects, I'll go ahead and make it, then. --Koveras 06:53, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Sure. I, for one, think it would be cool --Strannik 04:45, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
So, here is the new template: {{Noon Universe}}. And I have proposed the old {{NoonUniverseNovels}} for deletion. Please join the discussion. --Koveras 16:15, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Novel titles[edit]

Apparently, following articles should be renamed:

I can do that myself, but I wanted to let everybody know first. --Koveras 10:40, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I've finished renaming and I'll replace the wikilinks on Strugatsky's page, this one and in the template. The rest should be gradually converted later. --Koveras 14:02, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Wait a second! Where did you get "The Kid from Hell?" As far as I know, that book was never translated into English. I mean, it could be, but I haven't seen it in any Strugasky English bibliography listings. So, unless you can tell me the source, "A Guy from Purgatory" is a much better translation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Strannik (talk • contribs)
We should ask NERV about that. Since he has made an effort to scan the official bibliography and find four correct titles, I assumed he knew what he was doing. As for me, as I said, I've never read any NU novels in English. Let's move this discussion to the article's talk page. --Koveras 15:10, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Kynoid[edit]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kynoid

Can someone help? I'm no good with such things. :( --Koveras ☭ 12:45, 24 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"chronological"[edit]

"The universe is named after Noon: 22nd Century, the chronologically first novel from the series."

Does that mean internal or external chronology? i.e., does Noon describe the earliest fictional events, or was it the first to be published? (If both, why the adverb?) —Tamfang (talk) 09:43, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Avatar[edit]

These books are getting coverage in the papers because people have highlighted the parallels with the film Avatar - I picked up via The Guardian [1] but there is a lot of coverage both in Russian and English-language papers [2]. It might be worth a section at the end quickly outlining the issues as people will be arriving here looking for more information. (Emperor (talk) 16:02, 14 January 2010 (UTC))[reply]

Fully knowing that WP is not a forum or blog, I can't help abusing the discussion page with one question to the Strugatsky experts here, referring to a certain thing mentioned in the Guardian article linked above. In what story/novel is there a reference to a humanoid race living on Pandora, supposedly called the Nave (whatever their spelling in Russian)? I've read most of their works from the "Noon Cycle" (in Russian)...IIRC, neither 'Bespokoystvo', as far as I know the only story actually set on the planet, nor the passages in their other works I remember which mention Pandora in passing refer to any indigenous humanoid creatures.
When I watched Avatar, I myself thought that Cameron's Pandora is vaguely similar to the one depicted by the Strugatsky brothers -the type of the planet itself (a lush, tropical world), dangerous fauna, and obviously the name-, yet without any insinuation of plagiarism on my part. I still don't suspect Cameron to be a plagiator (at least not in this case), I just want to know out of curiosity, since, as I said, for the love of God I can't remember anything about Pandoran humanoids. FungusFromYuggoth (talk) 21:50, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The article should include a section noting that Avatar is in many ways a filmed version of Noon Universe, or plagiarized from Noon Universe - take your pick.Royalcourtier (talk) 01:35, 6 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Do we really need all these articles?[edit]

There seem to be an unreasonable number of sub-articles related to this series, many of which don't seen notable in their own right. I'm hesitant, though, to pursue deletion because I'm sure they have valid content worth merging to the main article or an article for a given text, and having never read any of the books I wouldn't be able to distinguish that content from content that can safely be discarded. Any ideas? – hysteria18 (talk) 16:59, 21 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, merging many of them seems sensible, unless someone has some refs? Stuartyeates (talk) 05:50, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Noon Universe wikia[edit]

Just heads up that while most Noon Universe fancruft articles were deleted, I've transwikid them to https://noon-universe.fandom.com/wiki/Noon_Universe_Wiki . So anyone looking for more details, check that site out. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:43, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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