Talk:Em (typography)

REWRITE

yo LEGO

I am about to do a significant rewrite of the article. The "em" is a technical term in typography and typesetting, and has one, single, correct definition, which is the one given also by Bringhurst in the quote below: the em is equal to the point size. If I were being strict about it, I could simply delete the rest of the text of the article. It is irrelevant.

I will leave in the other material, in slightly amended form. Several of those other definitions are internally inconsistent, which I will fix.

Tphinney 11:29, 28 Oct 2006 (UTC)

according to my dictionary, an em is 1/6 of an inch. 123.2.110.26 (talk) 13:46, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Bizarre. What dictionary is that? Thomas Phinney (talk) 05:08, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

mention that "ex" size is related...

REMOVED

I removed the fopllowing piece, with which an anon overwrote some text, probably copied from some home-made FAQ. Something not exactly related to what is written in the article. I leave it to experts to decide what to do with it.

An EM is the vertical distance a 'typesetting system' moves when the 'return key' (aka Enter) is pressed. If there is 'leading' or 'double spacing' of the text, the size of the move is increased or decreased, but if 12 'point' type is being used, and a return is encountered by text, then the system moves down one EM, back to beginning and starts the next line.

A typesetting system is one designed to facilitate a user or a program to define the width, length, columns, points size and font, and to set type interactively or for later reading into typography for online or print use. Systems like this, of which today there about a billion, range in size from small hand-held devices, like phones and portable computers, to large customized systems for high volume daily print publications -- All are typesetting systems that place alphabets, numerals and other various symbols and spaces in patterns we call typography.

Mikkalai 01:02, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

An article tying all the sizes together?

Please see Talk:Pixel#Difference_between_px.2C_pt.2C_em about an article to tie all these sizes and DPI etc. together. - Omegatron 16:37, Apr 6, 2005 (UTC)

"I removed the fo[]llowing piece, with which an anon overwrote some text, probably copied from some home-made FAQ. Something not exactly related to what is written in the article. I leave it to experts to decide what to do with it."

I wrote this definition because it is the definintion of the "EM" Not the EM space, Em Quad, Ems, used in spacing or anything else.

This is the definition of the EM as it is today, as it has been for years. It is both a purist, and a practical definition.

An EM is the vertical distance a 'typesetting system' moves when the 'return key' (aka Enter) is pressed. If there is 'leading' or 'double spacing' of the text, the size of the move is increased or decreased, but if 12 'point' type is being used, and a return is encountered by text, then the system moves down one 12 pt EM, back to beginning and starts the next line.

Now, not only is this definition gone, but there is a huge load of stuff that attempts, and I mean that generously, to define a bunch of other stuff, histroical, that has little or no modern use, and is all related to the EM space, Em Quad, and Ems used in spacing.

David Berlow The Font Bureau

Robert Bringhurst quote

"The em is a sliding measure. One em is a distance equal to the type size. In 6 point type, an em is 6 points; in 12 point type an em is 12 points and in 60 point type an em is 60 points. Thus a one em space is proportionately the same in any size."

from [1] —porges_(talk) 07:18, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

figure caption

While in the article em is referred as the width of teh letter M, in the caption of the image, there is the word hight. i belive that came from the use of mounting the block rotated. Could this be clarified? AnyFile 13:25, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the image altogether. The description was plain wrong, and the image had no indication of what "em" actually is. It was certainly not "c", as that is the point size. 69.196.186.136 (talk) 18:42, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Actually, it WAS "c" as in metal type the em is the same as the current point size. That is the current definition. Anybody who cares to reinstate the image should feel free to do so. 00:58, 19 October 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tphinney (talk • contribs)

More confused comments

User 208.40.131.46 put the following talk comment into the body of the article:

[ This last statement is merely confusing and not-at-all helpful. In common fonts, for most digital type publishing systems, when you ask for a "12 point font" you get a font in which the glyphs tend to have a cap height of 12 points. So from where does this, supposed "rough guideline", originate; and how is it applied in practice? ]

There are only two problems with this: (1) such editorial comments belong on the talk page; (2) the statement is false. On average, the cap height of a font is ~70% of the em, so for a 12 point font, it would be about 8-9 pt. It would be very unusual to have a cap height equal to the em. (The ~70% is not a hard and fast rule, just an average. And of course the very notion of cap height does not apply to the writing systems used natively by at least half the world's population.) Thomas Phinney (talk) 07:20, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

decimal em's?

I have concerns about the line in the opening stating that em's are commonly expressed as decimals. I've been a graphic designer for 15 years and the only place i've ever seen this is in web design. In digital print design I have always seen em's expressed as fractional 100th's or 1000th's (depending on software being used). For instance someone might say that should be kerned by -20, meaning 20/100 of an em closer.97.75.161.222 (talk) 16:46, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Better now? Angr (talk) 17:34, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Illustation shows incorrect M-height

The metal block shown in the illustration is misleading. It shows the top of the "H" character to be flush with the top of the block. This M-height should be somewhere below the top of the block, as room is needed to accommodate taller characters such as "S" and "O".

Also, in most digital fonts I've encountered, there is also whitespace on BOTH sides of the block, not just on the right as shown. More learned members with old-school metal-type experience may contradict me here for older type. Pdr0663 (talk) 23:55, 12 October 2022 (UTC)