Talk:Cherokee spiritual beliefs

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Intention of describing the Divine

Clean-up[edit]

I can't work on this right now, but please, consult Mooney's Myths and Legends of the Cherokee if nothing else. Eek. This stuff is not necessarily correct at all and it is, of course, floating around the Internet in various forms. I've given up on ever getting rid of all the "Cherokee" crap. Now, the story involving Selu is okay. Check on the "gods" especially, otherwise. Note that all references to them seem to involve the Panthenon (sp?) site and this article in its various forms. --JNE 06:41, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Agreed. This page is poorly written, and false. Since when did the Cherokee "invade" from South America? They are an Iroquoian language speaking tribe, and thus not from South America, but North America. This is well documented. Please change this gibberish.

This does need help and besides correcting an obvious falsehood in the intro, I'm not touching it again. But in response to the previous statement, there are Cherokee oral histories about coming from South America before traveling to the NE US then south to Appalachia. -Uyvsdi (talk) 17:58, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Uyvsdi[reply]

Reverted COPYVIO[edit]

I am attempting to completely revamp this page, based on my own research while an undergraduate at Furman University. It will take some time, so sorry for any messiness in the meantime. - Kanati 4 June 2007

Your research does not include copying whole cloth huge sections of James's Mooney's History of the Cherokee. These materials have been reverted and removed. It's ok to use the information in the book, just don't copy it. And do not remove the sections of the article written by actual Cherokee people referring to existing beliefs. Jeffrey Vernon Merkey 16:56, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you would bother to look at Mooney's Myths of the Cherokee, you would have seen that I did NOT copy anything wholesale. I summarized and paraphrased the basic story elements. If it was a citation that was missing, that could've easily been added. Now you're back to a completely unorganized run-on article. - Kanati —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.143.190.67 (talk) 04:29, 5 September 2007 (UTC) _____________________[reply]

"The Cherokee assigned a feminine personality to the concept of the personification of spiritual evil,". Where did you get this information?!?! This is bogus. Start citing some sources fuck.

Theory[edit]

Potentially the name yowa and yaweh could be related in the sence of the middle east and the carolina were geographically close during the time of pangea they could have mutual ancestery and then the pronounciation went through the raveges of ime and seperated into there two differant types. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.12.165.254 (talk) 19:37, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

User 99.52.187.207 keeps adding pro-Christian, uncited nonsense to this page. The place for proselytizing and evangelizing is NOT a Wikipedia page about someone else's religion. In addition, theories about "Yowa" and "Yahweh" are just that...UNCITED THEORIES. They have no more place here than Dan Brown's "Da Vinci Code" THEORIES have on the Wikipedia page for Christianity. - BryonMorrigan —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bryonmorrigan (talk • contribs) 15:14, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Revision Summary[edit]

We propose to add another creation myth, The Story of Corn and Medicine, under the Creation Beliefs section. Andy and I will each be contributing to the actual creation myth of The Story of Corn and Medicine. In addition, we both will be embellishing on the other areas of the article by adding more information and references where they are currently lacking (a main priority for our contributions is sourcing reliable information). The Creation Beliefs section also will be organized to effectively convey the different creation myths separate from one another. MadisonWilson (talk) 14:03, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

We propose to to rework the layout of the article so that it is easier for the reader to follow the creation myths. To accomplish this we will keep the current “Creation Beliefs” heading but move the current myth under a subheading and then add the next creation belief under an additional subheading, and continue in this fashion with any other new information, to create a more organized format. A creation belief is missing from this article, The Story of Corn and Medicine, we will add a summary of the myth under the creation belief section according to the new format. The section entitled “The Great Spirit” is missing some citations and is also lacking some information, we will be providing the missing references and information. Finally, the Medicine Man is mentioned briefly in the “Evil” section, however, it is an important aspect of Cherokee culture. To address this issue we will create a new subheading under “Creation Beliefs” and supply background information. Laponsi2 (talk) 00:31, 28 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Bibliography[edit]

McLoughlin, W. G. (1990). Ghost dance movements: some thoughts on definition based on Cherokee history. Ethnohistory, 25-44.

McLoughlin, W. G., and Conser, W. H. (1989). The First Man was Red--Cherokee Responses to the Debate Over Indian Origins, 1760-1860. American Quarterly, 41(2), 243-264.

Mooney, J. (1890). Cherokee theory and practice of medicine. The Journal of American Folklore, 3(8), 44-50.

Pesantubbee, M. E. (1993). When the Earth Shakes: The Cherokee Prophecies of 1811-12. American Indian Quarterly, 17(3), 301-317.

The University of Georgia. (2000). The story of corn and medicine. Creation Stories *Link to page: http://www.gly.uga.edu/railsback/CS/CSCorn&Medicine.html

Cherokee Nation. (2016). The traditional belief system. Cherokee Nation *Link to page: http://www.cherokee.org/AboutTheNation/Culture/General/TheTraditionalBeliefSystem.aspx MadisonWilson (talk) 14:03, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Peer review[edit]

Informative and neutral article. I see that you posted the story that you planned to put in. You followed suggestion from previous author. There were 3 areas that said 'citation needed". Interesting article about plants taking on the role of medicine.LustyMar (talk) 02:01, 22 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Peer Review[edit]

1.There are a few missing citations in the Great Spirit section, and in the “other venerated spirits” section. 2.The signs, visions, dream sections is very short. If you are not going to add anything to it you might be able to just move this sentence to the introduction 3. The Story of Corn and Medicine seems to be a bit long. You might be able to look it over again and take out some of the unnecessary details.

Overall you have done a great job with the article, just a little cleaning up to do! Good luck! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kingsb23 (talk • contribs) 03:41, 22 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Moving page to actual title[edit]

This article has been titled Spiritual beliefs of the Cherokee for over a year. I was about to move it but in case there are objections, of if another title is preferred and we need to discuss, I'm noting it here first. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 18:30, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

OK, Moving. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 21:03, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Story of Corn and Medicine[edit]

In the source this is called The Three Worlds.[1] Also see [[2]]. @CorbieVreccan:. Doug Weller talk 12:45, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Large sections of unsourced text, tense issues, othering voice[edit]

The edits I made also addressed a serious problem of past-tensing living cultures. There is still an over-reliance of anthro and other non-Native sources on this article. The websites I cut were not WP:RS as they cited no sources and had some red flags in the language. @Tsistunagiska: I'm not sure why you want to include problematic content like that. This discussion is better here than on user talk. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 19:54, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The reason why it uses past tense is because it is based on etymological studies done in the past. Many Cherokee belong to multiple different religions and carry different spiritual beliefs now. Some still do follow the old ways. My mothers family are traditionalist but others aren't and most don't follow these beliefs any more. To leave the article as you have is dishonoring to the Cherokee ancestors because it doesn't tell the whole story of the spiritual beliefs. I've already explained the issue with what you refer to as "reliable sources". There are no "reliable sources" according to your view points. I went to sources who are reliable in regards to the subject. You don't have to source every sentence within an article, especially when the entire paragraph is about the same thought and found within the same source. And please don't throw out a bunch of wiki-isms at me. The fifth pillar of Wikipedia states that there are no firm rules. You might as well delete the entire article because it doesn't tell the reader the full story. The information that was in the article was truthful. You removed vital parts of the belief system. What is present now is not Cherokee spiritual beliefs. Nothing that I added to the article is controversial or disputed. --Tsistunagiska (talk) 20:18, 9 December 2020 (UTC) --ARose Wolf 21:01, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If you are going to alter the article to what it is now then I kindly ask you to revert it to what it was before I edited the article from the start. I don't want my name attached to what it is now. It is so dishonoring. --Tsistunagiska (talk) 20:29, 9 December 2020 (UTC) --ARose Wolf 21:01, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I would also add that it isn't that the Nation doesn't want it published online, it is that they leave it up to their members to share the beliefs where ever they want. Many have published the beliefs on websites because you won't find it anywhere else. The Nation does not want to dictate beliefs from a governmental position. I think that is a praise worthy approach but is not meant to limit exposure to it. --Tsistunagiska (talk) 20:40, 9 December 2020 (UTC) --ARose Wolf 21:01, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Are you sure that is the governmental position of EBCI, CN and UKB? They really feel that way? Are you remotely familiar with Dr Richard Allen? Indigenous girl (talk) 22:59, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I want it noted that I disagree with the current wording of the article because it tells half-truths which are lies. Though I added the original content it is no longer my edits because it has been stripped of any depth and is now just a shell. I will say no more. --Tsistunagiska (talk) 21:26, 9 December 2020 (UTC) --ARose Wolf 21:01, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Serious over-reactions by myself that, looking at it, was due to immaturity in knowledge that I have worked to gain over the last six months. I am still learning. Therefore I have struck my comments but they remain as a reminder to myself. --ARose Wolf 21:01, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]