Talk:Envoi

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Puy[edit]

I took out this clause about envois: "Originally, they served as an address to the Prince (Puy)" because I don't know in what language a puy is a prince, or why he has a capital letter, or how he differs from the "patron" named later in the sentence. If the clause does make sense after all, please put it back in with a bit more explanation! Andrew Dalby 14:52, 12 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20040427075013/http://www174.pair.com/mja/cdo.html to http://www174.pair.com/mja/cdo.html

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Solved the citation and world-wide view issues of the article.[edit]

The article has now been significantly rewritten, with extensive citations and sources inserted, both for the original claims and for the new material. I have dealt with the dead links to external sources.

The original post made extensive (but uncited) use of a book that Wikipedia flagged as published by Lulu.com which is not a scholarly publisher. However, the material used is correct, so I've kept it.

The article now describes the use of the envoi form beyond medieval French poetry, particularly the innovations that took place elsewhere in Europe and in the United States. I have included examples of the envoi from the United Kingdom (including Scotland and Wales as well as England), the USA, Germany, and Australia.

I deleted the examples as the two poems printed in full were English poems from the Victorian era--not the most representative versions of the form. There are now extensive links to Wikisource and external sites with the poems if people want to find examples.

I believe this resolves the 'multiple issues' flagged on the article so I have removed the warning.

Katrinafee (talk) 03:56, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Related concept in the Man'yōshū[edit]

In the Man'yōshū, an envoi is called a hanka (反歌) or kaeshiuta (返し歌). Should it have a separate article, or a new section can be added here? ～ POKéTalker（═◉═） 15:12, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Forgot to ping @Eirikr and Hijiri88, and others not mentioned. ～ POKéTalker（═◉═） 16:19, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I mean ... if you don't think the material would fit in this one? I've always felt that if a topic has its own entry in the 日本古典文学大辞典, as I suspect 反歌（万葉集） probably does, then it probably merits its own article here, but I've historically been very wary about the ability of most English Wikipedia editors' ability to write decent, well-sourced articles on these topics. I stopped editing Japan-related articles for about two years, a couple of other editors stepped in and "finished" a job I had been working on by making all the links at Ogura Hyakunin Isshu#Poets blue, but the articles they produced were generally stubs of one or two lines, with either poor sourcing or none at all. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 16:37, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]