Talk:KMFDM

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Good articleKMFDM has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
September 20, 2007Good article nomineeNot listed
April 7, 2010Good article nomineeListed
February 12, 2011Featured article candidateNot promoted
April 8, 2011Peer reviewReviewed
June 28, 2012Peer reviewReviewed
August 19, 2012Featured article candidateNot promoted
November 1, 2012Featured article candidateNot promoted
Current status: Good article

Musical style section changes[edit]

I added in some new stuff about WWIII, and I think the new quote from Konietzko, "If we had a message, it would be: Think for Yourself and Don't Believe the Bullshit." is a really strong finish to the section. The one random sentence about lampooning themselves doesn't really connect to anything now. I moved it up to before the political paragraph, and I'm hoping to find more and better sources going into that aspect of their music. Right now, it's pretty lonely floating out there by itself. —Torchiest talkedits 16:35, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. I think it could still be fitted in with that last paragraph somewhere, as the paragraph is about what they sing/write about. Whether it's poking fun at themselves, or writing about stupid people, it's something they write about. I've tried to figure out where it could go in there, but anywhere it is added seems out-of-place. I'd put it at the end, except that kind of defeats the purpose of having Sascha's quote at the end. Maybe at the beginning of the paragraph? Something like "KMFDM has written about many topics during its career, including strong political themes and observations on society. Many albums also feature one or more songs in which they lampoon themselves, notably in the lyrics to "Sucks"[80] and "Inane".[23] According to Konietzko, the band has been "politically charged" since its inception.[81]" (and continue on with the rest of the paragraph). This is just a rough idea, and the first sentence I wrote could be rewritten to reflect what sources say (and then be properly sourced). Just an idea. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 18:37, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Justin Gammon in artwork section[edit]

I'm thinking the redesign of liner notes is both trivial and not really related to the idea of cover artwork. I'm also slightly concerned about whether the source would be problematic for a WP:FAC run. Any objections to removing it entirely? —Torchiest talkedits 18:26, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, unless a non-related source is around talking about him and his redesign, it doesn't seem very noteworthy to include. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 19:38, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fan recording[edit]

"KMFDM has toured almost two dozen times and invites fans to record concert performances."

I'm not a fan of how that now reads; it appears to say that the band is ok with bootleg recordings (which they may or may not be, but that would have to be supported by a source). I think it should be reworded to indicate that the band controls the recordings, etc (since the sentence actually refers to FanKam). That being said, FanKam happened on what, one tour? I'm not sure it's important enough for the lead. Maybe instead, a mention of their availability for fan interaction at shows (ie being available for pictures and chatting before and after shows)?

Also, minor thing, but the sentence currently switches tenses halfway through ("toured" past tense, "invites" present tense). "and has invited" sounds better, I think (if we keep that part of the sentence). MrMoustacheMM (talk) 19:56, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. I've been looking for places I can tighten up the language, but I didn't realize I'd changed the meaning significantly with that rewrite. I undid it for now, but I think you're right about it not being needed in the lead. I've also been considering merging a lot of the "Horde" and other fan stuff into the general history sections, and maybe just converting their current section into a touring only section. What do you think? —Torchiest talkedits 20:44, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Tough call. The Touring section would become pretty sparse (it's kinda short as it is), unless more info on their tours is added. I like how it's set up now, the info all seems somewhat related. But if you want to have at it and try stuff out, go ahead. It can always be reverted if it doesn't work out.
I tried rewriting that sentence in the lead, see what you think, feel free to edit/revert it if you want. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 00:39, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Added photos[edit]

So I removed a couple of photos, and added a bunch of new ones. Is it overdoing it, or does it fill out the article nicely? —Torchiest talkedits 03:09, 19 July 2012 (UTC)The photos don't do kmfdm any justice because of the captions. So atleast remove the captions. For God sakes, this is the kmfdm page, not the side-projects page.[reply]

I like it, but are there better pictures of Connelly, Ogre, En and Tim from when they were actually with KMFDM? Also, the Lucia and Jules pictures show up strangely for me, next to a section header instead of under the header. Also, the Jules picture should be on the left, as he is facing right. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 18:13, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I scoured all the photos already uploaded, and those are all I could find. As for the positioning, I intentionally did them that way because the article formatting gets a little messed up if they're lower. I spent about half an hour playing with the layout before I got it looking decent, but you can try moving them around and see if you can come up with a better dispersing of pics. I wanted to try to get all the pictures as close as possible to important mentions of people too.
As for the Jules picture, I know he's facing right, but his body is turned left. I figured it could go either way, and I think it's also preferred to alternate images left to right. I think there is another Sascha image with him facing the other way, so that could be substituted and swapped with the Jules photo. —Torchiest talkedits 18:20, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, none of these were major issues for me, just things I noticed (whether a FA reviewer notices and cares, I don't know). For me, the biggest thing would be finding more relevant pictures of some of the old members. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 18:29, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe we could pester some UHB guys to upload pictures here. —Torchiest talkedits 18:59, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Not a bad idea. Go for it! MrMoustacheMM (talk) 21:15, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

More audio samples[edit]

So I've added what are probably KMFDM's two biggest songs of all time, with good sources justifying their inclusion. I've looked at some featured articles for bands, and it looks like most have about five audio samples. Any thoughts on what other songs to add? I'm pretty sure "Power" would be the next obvious choice, since it came from their best-selling album and got promoted a ton, and we already have references discussing it in the Xtort article. But what else? I think any of the songs that charted would be a good bet. That includes:

  • "Split"
  • "Money"
  • "Vogue"
  • "Light"
  • "People of the Lie"
  • "Krank"

I'm also thinking a sample from "What Do You Know?" would be good in the style section, to show their political themes from early on. Or possibly something from Don't Blow Your Top to show Adrian Sherwood's production. I'm definitely open for more ideas though. The biggest hurdle is making sure we can get a good source discussing the song in some way. —Torchiest talkedits 16:54, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, we have two from the early/mid 90s, so I'd suggest a couple samples from earlier and later. I like the idea of something from WDYKD or DBYT showing their collage-style songs of old ("What Do You Know" or "Oh Look" would be my preference). As for a later song, I think "Krank" is a good choice (but I'll admit I'm biased, I don't really like "PotL"), it shows how the band has changed, yet kept up conceptual continuity.
"Power" is a good choice too, although somewhat similar (loosely speaking) to "ADAW". Too bad "Megalomaniac" didn't chart, as that's the "perfect" KMFDM song, in my opinion. A sample of that would show all the various styles they use. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 18:22, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
We're up to five samples now, but I just checked The Beatles and it has eight samples. So, I'm comfortable adding a few more. I think I'll add "Power", since I moved "ADAW" to its own article. But then we should probably get something else from the post-reformation era. Thoughts? I'm still looking for more commentary on songs. —Torchiest talkedits 06:10, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm thinking "Superpower" would be cool to add to the Touring and fanbase section, since it's discussed in detail there. —Torchiest talkedits 17:54, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Legacy section?[edit]

I'm wondering if KMFDM has been influential enough to warrant a legacy section. Lots of other featured articles for bands have it. It seems like they have inspired lots of younger industrial bands; after all, a tribute album was made for them back in 2000. I'm just not sure how tough it would be to find any sources talking about that aspect. —Torchiest talkedits 17:05, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No pity for the majority[edit]

In the word order given, I wonder whether it should not better be translated as "no majority for the pity". I guess it's best to add this as a second option in the introduction. --KnightMove (talk) 15:23, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The translation stuff is discussed in detail in the etymology section. For the lead, the official band-endorsed meaning should be enough, I think. —Torchiest talkedits 15:56, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Torcheist, this is explained in the body, and the lead should just show the official meaning. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 21:08, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure if you're watching the FAC review closely, but it was suggested that the etymology section should be earlier in the article, which kinda makes sense, considering that it's often a point of contention. Do you think we should move it above the history section, or try to merge it into the history, or just put it directly behind the history section? I can't decide. —Torchiest talkedits 22:04, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I would say directly after the History section. The history/background seems like the most important section to me, but if the Etymology section is considered to also be important, then I would say put it second. Regardless of people attempting to "correct" the name, it isn't the most important thing about the band. That's my suggestion, anyway. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 00:33, 5 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, that sounds good to me. Seeing it at the very top now isn't working for me, since it overlaps weirdly with some of the details in the history opening. I'll move it again. —Torchiest talkedits 00:42, 5 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe there should be a note indicating that it is intentionally grammatically incorrect? It's misleading to say "no pity for the majority" is a loose translation, even if it's the intended reading. Adding a comment in the source may stop drive-by edits but it doesn't fix the underlying cause: that it's misleading to say the given translation is a "loose translation" (rather than an interpretation). 5.10.189.182 (talk) 14:06, 28 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the previous. The offered "loose" translation is in fact outrageously wrong which is a very poor opening for an otherwise good article. Why not just saying: "KMFDM ('Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit', 'no pity for the majority')". Later in the article, there could be an explanation about the original version. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.113.106.96 (talk) 21:50, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I hate to bring this up again after being resolved for such a long while... but the opening sentence is still very awkward. Is it really necessary to open the article with a parenthetical assault of detail about the origin of the name when it is much more clearly explained in the history section? Expanding on MrMoustacheMM's comment that the history of the name is not really the most important thing, I would argue that it does not need to be the very first sentence of the article. I propose removing the (now redundant) parenthetical blurb about the name from the top of the article altogether. -- Also, stating that KMFDM was "originally" called something else is plainly incorrect. The history section clearly states that KMFDM (already abbreviated) was the original name they decided to use. -- abfackeln (talk) 03:44, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

KMFDM stands for "Kein Mitleid für die Massen" and means literally "No pity for the masses". Masses being meant as "the majority" as being the mainstream. // matz

Do you have a source for that? That's the first I've ever heard that translation. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 21:34, 7 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Possible rearranging of first section[edit]

I'm considering moving the first paragraph in the early years section down below the next two paragraphs explaining the meaning of the name. I'm thinking it might flow a little better, since it interrupts the history the way it is, but the end of Sascha's story goes right into the Feb. 29 date. —Torchiest talkedits 23:04, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That might work. Would you give that its own subheading, and start the Early Years in Germany subheading after those 2 paragraphs? Or could that paragraph be worked into those 2 paragraphs (since the name came about at the same time as the first show), so there's 3 or 4 paragraphs made out of that? Anyway, give it a try, see how it works. It can always be reverted or changed again if needed. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 22:38, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

MDFMK in the List of Tours[edit]

I think the info on the MDFMK tour should be removed from the List of Tours. Since MDFMK was a different band than KMFDM, I don't think it's appropriate to include here. Instead I think that info should be moved to MDFMK. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 20:17, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Works for me. I'll fix it. —Torchiest talkedits 20:32, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Associated acts - Skold[edit]

Since Tim has released a couple albums and some singles/EPs under the name Skold, instead of linking to the album should we just link to his article, possibly directly to his solo discography section? MrMoustacheMM (talk) 06:52, 30 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea. I did that and added info about Shotgun Messiah and PROLET•KULT. I think that's everything now. —Torchiest talkedits 21:10, 30 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Current tour name[edit]

As mentioned by an IP editor, this shows the name of the tour to be I [heart] You Tour 2013, whereas the KMFDM News source shows the locations as the tour names. Is the tour poster considered a reliable source, can it be used to confirm the name? I'm kinda up in the air about it, both seem like legitimate sources. Thoughts? MrMoustacheMM (talk) 17:20, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. I would say the official store is a reliable source, but I also think it's incomplete in terms of the information it provides. There's not a clear way to tie it to the March and April dates. If they tour again this year (not likely, but possible) that could complicate things further. I don't have super strong feelings on it, but it could be a sticking point at FAC. —Torchiest talkedits 13:35, 20 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

minor mistakes![edit]

After touring in 1992 with drummer Chris Vrenna,[reference] the then-core of KMFDM (Konietzko, Esch, Schulz, and second guitarist Mark Durante) returned to Chicago and found that Wax Trax! had filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy to begin corporate reorganization in November 1992.[reference] The band went into the studio in 1993 as a group to record its seventh album, Angst, which sold more than 100,000 copies over the next two years.[reference] Esch said after the album's release, "I like this album way more. Money was done in a hurry, and I was doing a major Pigface tour, so I didn't have much influence on the album. I really like Angst. I'm totally down with it. We've tried to involve guitar players, we tried to be like a real band, especially in the creative kind of aspect."[reference] After the release of Angst, Wax Trax!/TVT Records launched a promotion in which fans were encouraged to devise as many alternate meanings for KMFDM as possible, with more than a thousand submissions resulting.[reference] The 1994 song "Light" contains a possible alternate meaning: keiner macht für dich mehr ("no one does more for you").[reference]

... keiner macht für dich mehr ("no one does more for you").

      • should be***

"Keine Macht für Dich mehr!" ("no power for you anymore")

... title=Laff Mich Glucklich Seim

      • should be***

Lass mich glücklich sein! ("Let me be happy")— Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.143.24.246 (talk • contribs)

  • Since the KMFDM website capitalizes the "M" in Macht, meaning it is a noun rather than a verb, I've changed the translation of the "Light" lyrics to "no more power for you", which is more idiomatic. The other one can't be changed, since it is the title of the article we are using as a source. —Torchiest talkedits 12:13, 12 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Please also change "keiner" to "Keine" because the 'r' makes the difference in this context. "keiner" relates to nobody, "keine" is similar to no. I can tell for sure because german is my mother-tongue. :) BTW, saw the MDFMK wiki too late to change my comment... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.207.125.219 (talk) 17:36, 18 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Are you suggesting that we change the quoted lyrics? The song uses "keiner". So if that is what you are suggesting, we wouldn't change that in the article, as that is what the lyrics are. See KMFDM "Light" lyrics. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 19:10, 18 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, you are right, sorry. I saw the lyrics on the KMFDM site too late... IMHO, the lyrics have that minor mistake. If they meant "Keiner" it should be: "Keiner macht für Dich mehr" because macht is a verb in that context, which means kinda "doing". "Macht" with captialized M is similar to Power. And therefore it should be "Keine Macht für Dich mehr" ... and AFAIK, they even sing "Keine". But it is as it stands, sure. So, thanks for your great assistance and happy Xmas! :) span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.207.125.219 (talk) 10:17, 20 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I noticed that too after I changed it. I'm thinking at this point it might be better to remove the translation, since it's just about perfectly ambiguous based on the official site's text. —Torchiest talkedits 02:13, 23 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

MDFMK incomplete....[edit]

There is info about the MDFMK era left out....

MDFMK featured the movie "Heavy Metal FAKK2" with their song 'Missing Time' within the movie itself and on the movie soundtrack too! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.143.24.246 (talk) 13:37, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That information is in fact included, at MDFMK, the correct location for that information. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 22:50, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Singing in other languages than English and German?[edit]

In the list of multilingual bands and artists, there is an entry stating that KMFDM is singing in "English, German, Russian, Spanish, Esperanto, Czech". It's the only band singing in Esperanto in that list - I would have thought to see something like Freundeskreis as singing in Esperanto... Anyway, I can't find any reference assuring that KMFDM has been singing in all those languages, and somehow I doubt that the statement is right. Well, in the album Tohuvabohu there's each one title in French and Spanish, and I don't know about the title "Bumaye" (maybe Turkish, maybe something else... no, just plain English and German). Potentially not only the titles, but whole songs there are in French and Spanish, though you can choose any title you want for a song - a title is no guarantee for content (controlled: "Fait Accompli" is in English and German, only "Los Niños del Parque" is in "real" Spanish). Does anybody know anything about multilingual singing of KMFDM, or is the list statement a hoax? ThomasPusch (talk) 21:20, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

KMFDM German abbreviation[edit]

Dear editors, shouldn't the abbreviation stand for "Kein Mitleid für die Mehrheit" instead of the currently shown "Kein Mehrheit für die Mitleid"? Whilst the latter makes not sense in German, the first one does and translates to "No pity for the majority", as stated in the article afterwards.

Source: I'm half-German.

Kind regards,

M. Glade — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:70:CF74:2200:3DBE:2C47:8AF0:77E1 (talk) 10:03, 27 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If it were grammatically correct, yes. But it's intentionally ungrammatical and based on a mishmash of newspaper clippings. —Torchiest talkedits 20:23, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That should also be reflected in the translation, ie. "No majority for the pity". --84.132.158.29 (talk) 21:18, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

1992 tour information[edit]

This is mainly directed at User:Gleb95, although anyone else is of course welcome to comment. I see that you added a source for the first tour in 1992, and then moved it down to the second tour. The problem is that source seems to have elements of both, without being correct for either. The source uses a tour name that is close to the one listed in the band's newsletter, but with the words "money" and "sucks" switched. But the dates of the Money Sucks tour mentioned in the source are for June, when the actual Sucks Money tour was in October and November. So I'm not sure what's going on. It could be they renamed the June tour after that source was printed. —Torchiest talkedits 20:39, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Authenticity of Opium[edit]

The article on the album says that it wasn't recorded until the 90s and released in 2002. MeEyeFunk (talk) 13:37, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nobody knows for sure. The only time its authenticity was seriously discussed was when Watts made that statement a few years ago. Absolutely no one else (from KMFDM) has brought it up. So at this point, we don't know if what Watts said is true or not.
I tried looking into it. And I think there was indeed a demo tape from 1984. But its tracklisting was slightly different. Opium was first acknowledged by KMFDM around 1997, when Sascha claimed that he found old tapes from 1984.
As of this moment, we should consider Opium as the first album, and What Do You Know as the second album, because for the past 25+ years, that's how it's been...until more concrete evidence emerges. Xanarki (talk) 20:50, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Adding to my last message...the Bandcamp page for KMFDM now says it's "so much more" than KMFDM's debut album. The ambiguous wording implies it is both their first major release and a demo album. But as of this writing, there's no reliable sources which states it is not their first album. Xanarki (talk) 16:05, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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