Talk:White Ship

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 12 January 2022 and 13 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Joel Garvey (article contribs).

Passenger List

I would like to try to insert a partial passenger list, with the help of the page editors. I'm somewhat amazed to discover that there are no books written on the White Ship, which had such a dramatic effect on English and French history. So this Wikipedia article really is it. I'm a librarian, so I'll be happy to source the names.

This is one list I've found (not sourced yet, or corrected):

• William Adelin, heir to the English throne
• his half-brother Richard FitzRoy of Lincoln
• his half-sister Matilda FitzHenry, Countess of Perche (sometimes called Marie de Mortagne)
• Richard d'Avranches, second Earl of Chester
• his brother Otheur or Othuel d'Avranches, governor of the King's sons
• the Countess of Chester, Mathilda or Lucia-Mahaut of Blois, the King's neice
• Geoffrey Ridel, Royal Justice, Son-in-law of Hugh, Earl of Chester
• William Bigod, Steward of the household of King Henry
• Ivo II de Grandmesnil
• William Grandmesnil (a brother of Ivo II de Grandmesnil)
• William of Rhuddlan (son of Robert)
• Hugh of Moulins
• Walter of Everci
• Geoffrey, archdeacon of Hereford
• Thomas FitzStephen FitzAirard (captain)
• Geoffrey de l'Aigle
• Engenulf de l'Aigle
• Ralph le Roux, Lord of Pont Echanfre (many believe him to be an illegitimate son of Robert de Lacy)
• Gilbert de l'Aigle, Vicomte of Exmes
• Dietrich (Theodoric), the nephew of the German emperor (probably a son of Henry V.'s sister Agnes by Frederic Duke of Suabia)
• Gisulf, the King's secretary
• William - Son of the Bishop of Coutances
• Richard Anskill - Son and heir of a Berkshire landowner
• William Pirou - Steward to the king
• Robert Mauconduit - Nobleman

Joel J. Rane (talk) 08:35, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Sound sensible, provided - as you've noted - its reliably sourced. Hchc2009 (talk) 15:30, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Date of sinking

I am reverting this edit Revision as of 18:30, 5 March 2021 by user:Jardeheu which changed the date of the sinking from 25th to 24th November 1119.

I am worried that is righting a great wrong because the edit which changes the date added "(and not 25 November 1120, as widely mentioned)." To support the change user:Jardeheu uses as an unreliable source that analyses a primary source: http://closducotentin.over-blog.fr/2020/11/essai-d-enquete-nautique-sur-le-naufrage-de-la-blanche-nef-a-barfleur-au-xiie-siecle.html

The website ( http://closducotentin.over-blog.fr/ ) states on its home page

French	Google translated
Ce site présente les actualités proposées par l'équipe du Pays d'art et d'histoire du Clos du Cotentin. Il contient également des dossiers documentaires consacrés au patrimoine et à l'histoire de Valognes, Bricquebec et Saint-Sauveur-le-Vicomte.	This site presents the news proposed by the team of the Country of art and history of Clos du Cotentin. It also contains documentary files devoted to the heritage and history of Valognes, Bricquebec and Saint-Sauveur-le-Vicomte.

I Checked

• Mason, J. F. A. (23 September 2004). "William [William Ætheling, William Adelinus, William Adelingus] (1103–1120)". Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (online ed.). Oxford University Press. doi:10.1093/ref:odnb/29453. (Subscription or UK public library membership required.)

And while Mason does not categorically state the sinking took place on 25th he makes it clear that it happened no earlier than the 25th:

but when Henry embarked for England with his son from Barfleur on 25 November 1120, all the king's achievements were overthrown by one of the greatest and most frequently recounted personal tragedies of English history. Henry sailed first, having turned down the offer of a new ship—the White Ship—from Thomas Fitzstephen; the Ætheling and his retinue (reminiscent of the youthful entourage once enjoyed by his uncle Robert Curthose) followed in the new vessel.

So I think that as Wikipedia is a follower and not a place for publishing original research, if the date of the sinking is to be changed it must be done by citing 21st century reliable secondary sources. -- PBS (talk) 15:19, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

Presumed section found

A reputable newspaper has reported this week that a significant portion of likely wreckage has been found in a likely location. 94.30.84.71 (talk) 19:24, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Is this it (Daily Telegraph; NB paywall)? 84.9.119.66 (talk) 01:15, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

What was the outcome of The Anarchy?

I am wonder who won in at the end of The Anarchy and whether it is relevant here or not. -Maescam (talk) 02:54, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

How reliable can the sources for details of the be?

So, the passage

William Adelin got into a small boat and could have escaped but turned back to try to rescue his half-sister, Matilda, when he heard her cries for help. His boat was swamped by others trying to save themselves, and William drowned along with them

How is this known? There was only one survivor and he was pretty busy clinging to a rock. And it was night. That's not even counting the details like the voice was the guy's half sister. Theres's more, like the captain drowning himself etc. I can't read the sources, but my presumption is that they can't be reliable for these facts.

We ought to say "according to legend, first written down in year X, such and such happened..." or something. Unless I'm missing something. Herostratus (talk) 02:27, 6 January 2024 (UTC)