Talk:Figure-eight knot (ropes)
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Scope[edit]
Removed description of figure-eight loop that belongs under its own entry.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.40.59.42 (talk) 05:53, 9 August 2003
Title[edit]
Figure of eight? RickK 07:55, 9 Aug 2003 (UTC)
- At 11:22, 26 June 2002 (i.e., before that comment by R...K) Josh Grosse (talk · contribs) summarized an edit with
- More on math - are we sure figure-of-eight is the more standard name?
- in the 1st of 2 edits that used "figure-8 knot" (in fleshing out a reference to the knot-theory construct) and then used "Figure-eight knot (mathematics)" (to lk to the article he started by moving that content out of the article accompanying this talk page).
R...K's comment came next.
Until now, the closest to a direct response has been C S (talk · contribs) saying in their contrib at Talk:Figure eight knot#Disambiguation that- it appears to me that "figure-of-eight knot" is just as common as "figure eight knot" for the real world object. So I've taken advantage of this difference in terminology to direct stuff appropriately.
- That's a casual observation, or perhaps simply a gut opinion, on the facts, followed by specification of a course of action (now in effect), based on it. (Recently, i obliquely objected, proposing to change the titling, in my contrib to that section.)
Here's some evidence on the facts:- Google (the hyphens make no difference):
- about 4,820 for "figure of eight knot" tie OR rope.
- about 16,900 for "figure eight knot" tie OR rope.
- about 409 for "figure of eight knot" "knot theory" OR mathematics OR topology.
- about 6,390 for "figure eight knot" "knot theory" OR mathematics OR topology.
- My 1958 Merrian-Webster unabridged (now in its golden anniversary year!) lists only "figure of eight knot", but treats "figure eight" as a variant of the adjective "figure of eight".
- 1976 M-W Coll. and 1981 American Heritage do not recognize "figure of eight" at all, but include the knot as a meaning of "figure eight".
- Google (the hyphens make no difference):
- I would welcome evidence bearing on my tentative conclusions that
- "figure of eight" has become an archaic expression for either sense,
- the different ratios of its uses probably reflects a longer tradition and insignificant obsolescence in the literature on knots, in contrast to increased interest in, and improved technology for, topological topics (e.g. four color theorem)
- given that virtually all users interested in the figure-8 as a topological entity are aware of the physical knot (and the rest will be unsurprised to learn of it), while many (perhaps most) interested in the physical knot are likely to be surprised and confused to learn that higher mathematics can deal with knots (other than perhaps analyzing strength and failure modes!), the combination of about 3-fold greater frequency and the principle of least astonishment suggest renaming Figure-of-eight knot to Figure-eight knot, with a HatNote Dab to Figure-eight knot (mathematics), and
- there is no need for "equal disambiguation".
- As to the "of", i'm boldly renaming Figure-of-eight knot to Figure-eight knot (ropes), pending opportunity for others to comment on moving it, as primary topic, to Figure-eight knot
--Jerzy•t 06:59, 15 October 2008 (UTC)