Talk:Purple Aki

So what's the 'legend'?

get this outta here and into a category for convicted criminals or something. FOUR TILDES 17:57, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

There are extensive legends about this guy. I certainly remember the wild and exaggerated stories that were told about him when I was a child. Marwood 16:49, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

maybe we could get some of those 'legends' on here so it could be justifyed that he be in the 'urban legens' article,maybe its regional or something? im from the U.S. and ive never even heard of this dude,so i thought by reading about him i would gain som knowledge of his 'legend',but i was left confused as to why he is included in this article.FOUR TILDES 17:58, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

The problem is, by their very nature, urban legends are unsubstantiated. And we have to be very careful about sourcing material for this article because of WP:BLP. Certainly there were lots of rumours and stories about "Purple Aki" in the Merseyside area in the 80s and 90s. Most of the ones I heard suggested that he kidnapped school children, and carved the initials 'PA' on their buttocks. I've since heard stories from other people involving murder and sexual assault. It was nonsense, but not total nonsense. There is a real 'Purple Aki', although his exploits (as described in the article) aren't nearly as graphic as the stories. Indeed the most notable thing about Akinwale Arobieke (and probably the only reason that he is notable enough for a Wikipedia entry, as the AfD has it) is that he is a rare case of an urban legend turned out to be based - at least in part - on fact.Marwood 18:29, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

so its impossible to refrence any of the 'legends' here so why dont we stick to the facts & move the article to 'murders' or something..know what i mean?FOUR TILDES 17:58, 29 June 2007 (UTC)(4 of em)

Because he isn't a convicted murderer. Or sex offender. He is already in the category of 'English Criminals' and the introduction to the article explains that he was believed to be an urban legend until he was actually arrested. I never believed he even existed, until I saw reports of his arrest appearing in the newpapers! And as I say, the only reason Aki is notable enough for a Wikipedia entry is that he is an Urban Legend which turned out to be true. What we really need is to find some verifiable sources reporting the existance of the legends, and add information on that basis. But so far (although I haven't looked very hard) I've turned up a blank. Marwood 18:27, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I've attempted to write a NPOV and properly sourced section on the "Purple Aki" myths. It's a difficult line to walk, because obviously Akinwale Arobieke is a real person and so WP:BLP applies. But "Purple Aki" (though based upon Arobieke) is fiction, and exists only as folklore. And so most sources are blogs, forums etc. Stories like this don't find their way into university-type text books! I hope any serious objections can be discussed here. Marwood 20:07, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

we could have an article of stuff that he did do,then have a list of 'legends' that may be attributed to him.problem solved.

4tildes_7/3/2007_@4:07pm.

Conviction and successful appeal

I'm surprised there's no mention of the death of the boy at New Brighton station. Arobieke was convicted for playing some part in his death, and then won his appeal. I can't remember the details, but I've seen the law report. I'll try to find some citations.Thewilk 22:38, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

It's not mentioned, because there are no citations. The boy in question, Gary Kelly, supposedly electrocuted himself in New Brighton Station while trying to hide from Arobieke under a train. Everyone seems to know the story, but no-one can produce a reliable citation - only forums and reposts of earlier versions of this article 80.93.170.99 18:08, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I've added it, with a citation to the law report. Not sure if this is enough, if a link is needed there's one here http://sixthformlaw.info/02_cases/mod5/cases_assaults_actus.htm Thewilk 19:44, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Excellent, thanks. 80.93.170.99 12:54, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

why doesnt marwood read the godam thing proporly widnes is in halton he was banned from entering therfore banned from halton jeez louise

Two things. One, yes Widnes is in Halton. But he was banned from Widnes, not from Halton. Leeds is in England, if I'm banned from entering Leeds that doesn't mean I'm banned from entering England. Secondly, no citation was provided to demonstrate that his ban from entering anywhere has been lifted - only the ban from 'touching muscles'. Marwood 10:19, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Deletion

Why is this page up for deletion?--194.81.33.39 13:21, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

KEEP - I vote against deletion Andrew Oakley 16:24, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

i say move this to another categoryFOUR TILDES 17:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Needs research to find correct crime

Sorry, I have to remove tags. Not exact crime as tagged. Wish I had more time to research this case and apply correct tag. I hope someone else will do the research.--FloNight 20:21, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

The article at the moment is very confusing. It labels Arobieke as a sex offender, but he was convicted of no sex crime. It says he was convicted of sexual harassment (he wasn't) of hundreds, and then in the next sentence says he was convicted on only 15 counts of harassment and one count of intimidation. 80.93.170.99 12:27, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Name

I think this article should be called Akinwale Arobieke and leave this page as a redirect. Comments?Obina 14:05, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree. 80.93.170.99 12:27, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

'Jacob Milroy'

I've removed this story from the article, as no citation has been provided, and no 'Jacob Milroy' exists on the UK electoral role. A google search doesn't turn up anything with reference to Aki except this article. 80.93.170.99 14:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Can't be too careful

I try to be careful when scanning for vandalism and this is a good example. Looks unbelievable, made up, but true. Want to trade this judge for a judge in Florida? Shenme 08:48, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Maintenance

This article is practically impossible to maintain. Because of the nature of the subject matter, it's prone to vandalism from every idiot Scouser who thinks it is funny to put a comment saying that Arobieke abused their best mate/worst enemy and he/she enjoyed it. Surely it can be afforded from protection on this basis?? 80.93.170.99 18:11, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

so everyone who makes an edit you don't like is an 'idiot scouser', perhaps yous hould leave your prejudice views to yourself.

The problem with keeping this page clean is that in many ways Purple Aki has become a local anti-hero. The legend of Aki is part and parcel of Liverpool Culture - and has now spanned two generations.(He's on Myspace now!) There have been frequent attempts on this page to mention elements of the legend of Aki, but often these are deleted due to them being unsourced and without reference, but this is the whole point of an urban myth! - There IS no proof! I've just tidied up a recent attempt to summarise the legend of Aki and hope it stays. Sadly, you will always get idiots abusing this page just like any other on Wikipedia.--Johncollinswork 18:53, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Surely, an encyclopaedia should be reporting the fact that myths exist (for which there is proof) rather than the content of the myths themselves (for which there is, as you say, none)? 80.93.170.99 17:03, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Unsourced legend section

I have twice deleted the unsourced "Legend" section. This is a biography of a living person and thus higher standards of sourcing apply. I understand the difficulty in providing citations for urban legends, longstanding rumors, and other similar statements but that in way means that they can be added to this article without sufficient citations. --ElKevbo 20:41, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Is there no way to distinguish the living person from the urban legend? Must have very similar problems with Banksy. Or, for that matter, the real Chuck Norris vs the Internet Chuck Norris. 76.10.128.105 (talk) 20:34, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Edit war brewing

User:62.31.200.124 keeps removing a dead link from the 'history' section. I'm not going to revert the change again as I don't want to get into an edit war. If you're reading, 62.31.200.124, can you explain why you are removing the link? Marwood 12:42, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Dont know how to use this wiki thing that well so I'm just editing my reply into your post, I kept removing the link since its my blog and really dont want that many people reading it. Sorry to be a pain, I probably shouldnt have posted the thing in the first place if I didnt want people reading it.

As you've taken the article down, then no-one is going to be reading the blog post anyway. I'll look for a replacement link and swap it out as soon as I find one. Is that okay? Marwood 12:55, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I ried to replace it with this link http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php?PHPSESSID=b35129e3a4f80d076e77c05ae3f329d8&topic=1206.msg12351#msg12351 only I'm really crap at wiki. Could you fix it?

That link is no good, as it is actually a copy of an earlier version of this article. We can't cite ourselves! Marwood 13:08, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I've replaced it with some other citations. The whole section is very tentative and could well be on the wrong side of WP:BLP. Marwood 13:10, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

What we really need to understand here is hard to ditinguish between comments about the 'living person' Akinwale Arobieke, the 'alter-ego' Purple Aki (information on which is almost all opinion / folk myth). Obviously the two are the same and it's the legend 'Purps' that brings people to this great page.) Both information about Akinwale Arobieke and Purple Aki should remain on this page. There are tonnes of pages about urban myths on wikipedia without them being backed up by 'facts', by nature of them being myths.--Johncollinswork 20:07, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

"unsubstantiated references"

Some references to discussions about the Purple Aki legend were recently removed as B3ta.com seems to have been taken as an unreliable source. For the biographical information about Akinwale Arobieke (which should be subject to WP:BLP, I would agree. But for the folklore/mythology of "Purple Aki" (as distinct from the real life Arobieke), then I'd contend so-called webzines like B3ta are suitable references. Marwood 20:47, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Far as I know, Purple Aki and Akinwale are the same people! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.152.245.152 (talk) 11:22, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Webzines are not suitable references. See WP:RS. Indeed, B3ta operates more like a BBS. I've removed these sources accordingly. Rklawton 14:59, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Can you suggest a better reference for urban myths and stories of this sort? As a general rule, I'd absolutely agree that B3ta is not a reliable source. However, as a source supporting myths like Purple Aki it seems ideal. We're not using B3ta to support "facts" here, we're citing people telling the fanciful stories they heard from their childhood. These stories are the only reason Arobieke is notable enough for a WP article at all. Although in all honesty, I still think this article should be deleted. 80.93.170.99 (talk) 18:12, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Current event

November 14[1] Rklawton 15:38, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Past criminal record

A precis of his past criminal record can be found in paras 44-57 of this court transcript from 2004. This is his appeal refusal relating to the 2003 conviction. 86.21.74.40 13:41, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Latest trial coverage

Man 'breached muscle-squeeze ban'. Nanonic (talk) 10:33, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Reliable sources

I see these problems were raised above and ignored, but ignoring the problems doesn't fix the problem. Urban dictionary, some webzine, Youtube clips, etc. are not anything close to reliable sources. There wasn't a s ingle reliable source for any legend aspect. Claims that there are generally no reliable sources for legends and therefore bad sources must remain are simply false. Legends can be documented in newspapers, books, journals and other sources just like anything else. If none for these claims can be found, then the claims must be removed from the article, which I just did. Do NOT put them back without first finding sources that meet WP:RS. DreamGuy (talk) 21:01, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Though I disagree with your reasoning, the removal of the 'legend' section has wider implications for the article, specifically the issue of notability. The only notable thing about Arobieke is that he is the origin of "Purple Aki" myth. Indeed, this is the only reason that the article came through the AFD a couple of years ago. Without the Purple Aki myth, this article would not exist. However, as no reliable sources exist (or can be located) for the myth, we cannot establish notability and the article shouldn't be here at all. Marwood (talk) 14:13, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

[2] (reference 3 in the article) refers to Arobieke as Purple Aki, considered to be a urban myth in north-west England. --NeilN ^{talk ♦ contribs} 17:30, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

While accurate, it is entirely possible that the comment was sourced from an earlier version of this page. Arobieke even alleged as much in his defense. Assuming this isn't the case, however, it still says nothing about the Purple Aki myth, other than the fact it exists. I'm still struggling to see how we can establish notability. Marwood (talk) 13:11, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

We cannot asssume where that comment is sourced from. An October 2006 article also mentions Purple Aki [3]. --NeilN ^{talk ♦ contribs} 13:27, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Intro

Shouldn't there be something in the page intro explaining exactly why this person is famous?--Phil5329 (talk) 00:56, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

How he got his name

Every single version of the Purple Aki legend that I have heard mentions that he was given his nickname because he is "so black he's purple". I am going to include this hilarious fact in the article unless someone can suggest a sensible reason why I shouldn't. Anty (talk) 13:32, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

You need a reliable source to back that up. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 13:38, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Re: Purple Aki - "so black he's purple", the lack of a 'reliable source' doesn't stop (eg) King Arthur having a wiki page. I come form the area of his haunts and everyone knows of this 'mythical' character as "Purple Aki". Quite a shock that years later, turns out he's real. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.146.0.208 (talk) 13:16, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

There should definitely be something in there explaining his name. The fact that there isn't a reliable source is irrelevant. Surely it is better to explain that there isn't a reliable resource in the name info, than to not mention it at all. People reading might be thinking "but why is he purple?" I'm putting it in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.234.165.109 (talk) 13:44, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Verifiability of his age

I see TheRedPenOfDoom has marked Aki's age as unreliable since The Court of Appeal is cited. I understand it's a primary source and all that, but do we really have reason to doubt it? Other sources already used in the article cite an age consistent with a July 1961 birth date. EG. this article says "Arobieke, 54, of Devonshire Road, Liverpool, also complained that…" This is <ref name="DailyPost_2015-10-01"> already used in the article. @Unbuttered Parsnip, The duke juice, Philip Trueman, NeilN, StevenJ81, and Kethrus II: you've contributed to this article recently - your thoughts, please?

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Akinwale Arobieke. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20040112084400/http://www.sthelenstoday.net:80/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=70&ArticleID=713136 to http://www.sthelenstoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=70&ArticleID=713136

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Y An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 21:23, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Aki's status as a "sex offender"

The infobox for this article describes the subject as convicted of Indecent assault in 2001 and 2003. I don't think this is true - the Sexual Offences Prevention Order was controversial because of "the fact he has not been convicted of a sex crime." (BBC, 2006). For this reason, I think he should also be removed from Category:British people convicted of indecent assault and Category:English sex offenders. Stroller (talk) 02:56, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

@Koncorde: Regarding the comment you made when editing today - if you're thinking of doing some work on this article, please see the above. I dislike "his criminal activities are sexually motivated, a fact which was recognised by the issue of the SOPO" in the lede. Aki appears to be a bit of a local legend, a figure of both mockery and controversy - this article attracts both childish vandalism and those who think him a "nonce" and guilty of killing Kelly. I've wanted for some time to give this article a thorough revision but am reluctant because I know I'd spend literally hours at it. --Stroller (talk) 22:12, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Strolls I will take a look. The guy is a local "legend" in the weakest possible sense and this article is overly detailed in discussing an otherwise not-notable minor criminal. Koncorde (talk) 22:16, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

I was using the word "legend" in its most colloquial sense, not advocating his notability. I'm not really au fait with wikipedia's notability guidelines, but he's in the national headlines fairly often. I would say his notability is primarily the unique nature of this ban, which one judge described "draconian" but which was reinstated when the police appealed the verdict. I find many articles here excessively detailed, but abridging them is the kind of editing which past experiences have made me wary of - it seems in the nature of wikipedia that editors like to add any pertinent fact (I don't claim to be immune from this). --Stroller (talk) 04:22, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, was using legend in the same way myself, was not trying to imply anything. This article is cruft. All that is notable (really) is the SOPO, the rest of it is tabloid journalism (and rejected in other BLP's for such). Koncorde (talk) 21:19, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Really it sounds like you should be nominating the article for deletion. --Stroller (talk) 00:53, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

@Mountaincirque: could I draw your attention to the above, please? If you go through some of the many previous stories about Aki, the SOPO was quite controversial because of he's never been convicted of a sexual offence. I appreciate you want to do good work here (and the article does need it, really) but Aki's status is a bit complicated. Stroller (talk) 15:45, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

thanks @Strolls:, I appreciate your eye on this. I would read this: http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_and_ancillary_orders_applications/#a51 You don't need to have been convicted of a sexual offense to receive a SOPO, I would like to see sources that show the controversy of assigning him with this sentence when he has been convicted of indecent assault, a crime merged with sexual offences in the 2003 act. In effect this makes it a sexual offence by today's law, as noted in the CPS source: "the power to make a SOPO may be exercised in relation to an offence committed before the commencement of the Act." So there is by law no controversy here I can see in issuing him with an order. The idea of the civil order is for him not to be in a position to re-offend on prior crimes: indecent assault in this case which after 2003 falls under the Sexual Offenses act. Mountain^cirque 09:59, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

@Mountaincirque: I didn't believe he has been convicted of indecent assault. I've been meaning to tag with WP:CITENEED where that's claimed in the infobox. I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding the difference between a "sex crime" and a "sexual offence", but in respect of definitions post the 2003 Act, the BBC article I linked above, which says "despite the fact he has not been convicted of a sex crime", is dated 2006. A 2014 Liverpool Echo article says "Mr Arobieke – who has never been convicted of a sexual offence". The SOPO was granted when he was released after being "jailed for five years in 2003 for 15 charges of harassment". In total he has "more than 40 convictions, including eight for actual bodily harm, seven for assaulting police, six for threatening behaviour and one for a threat to kill." You see that "indecent assault" isn't mentioned.

I thought, for these reasons, the BBC described the SOPO as "controversial" in their coverage of it. I must've been mistaken, though, as I can't now cite that. One might say that the judge describing it as "draconian" and the subsequent appeal would make it inherently controversial, but obviously that's open to debate. I've actually unsubbed from this page this week, as I can't be bothered to keep up with this kind of discussion. There's a lot of good material in this week's BBC articles about him; I think this page could make much more of his harassment and the effect on his victims - there are quotes (in this article, I think) from his victims, talking about how his attentions made them feel. I think that would make for a much more rounded article - he clearly is quite terrifying to those he victimises. I think it would need hours of work to reflect this, however, and I don't tend to work on high traffic articles. Stroller (talk) 12:57, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Yes, the BBC article makes it clear that Arobieke has never been convicted of a sexual offence, and in fact the judge who lifted the SOPO specifically rejected the idea that his behavior is sexually motivated. I am therefore amending the page text accordingly. Nick Cooper (talk) 13:25, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 September 2023

He is dead so I think his death should be acknowledged. 82.132.187.145 (talk) 18:57, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Jalen Folf (talk) 19:08, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

He is dead 2A00:23C6:9C61:8D01:8D9D:C2E:FCF0:1060 (talk) 11:49, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

And we should just believe you? Reports of this nature need to come from reliable sources. The best I've seen so far is a few AI-generated spam sites and speculation on forums. It's not enough. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 20:45, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 September 2023

Change potentially dead to Very much alive. The story about Akinwale is click bait, Akinwale is very much alive and well apart from his property having damage due to a flood he is alive and well. (SOURCE - I am a (contractor) dealing with the damage to his property.) 2A00:23EE:12D0:A849:B4F9:DFFF:FE80:29BE (talk) 20:34, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Well that's somehow more believable than some of the 'sources' I've seen saying otherwise. In any case I've removed the "has been presumed dead" tag, as there's no reliable sources reporting such speculation. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 20:45, 4 September 2023 (UTC)