Talk:List of English words of Persian origin

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Untitled[edit]

American Heritage Dictionary, online edition 4, says kismet is "Turkish, from Persian qismat, from Arabic qisma, lot, from qasama, to divide, allot. See qsm in Semitic Roots.]"

good, then the word probably belongs here (among other places) Lethe | Talk
It's a Persian borrowing from Arabic, then, isn't it, as it's a parallel English borrowing. From Persian? or directly from Arabic? I don't know. A long long list of English words of Persian origin flatters cultural vanity. A shorter list, of words directly borrowed from Persian, would be more interesting, because it actually would tell us something. "Lilac" for instance may indeed have a Persian root, but it entered English in the 16th century, when the rooted cuttings first were imported from Constantinople. "Lilac" is a word borrowed from Turkish, not from Persian.
As it stands, this vanity list is pointless. Do people understand why I say this? or do people think I'm "anti-Persian" or something?--Wetman 02:24, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I have to disagree with Your Wetness. Sure, perhaps the creation of this list was motivated by vanity or Persian chauvanism, and some of the etymologies are false (or like peach, not directly derived from Persian, but instead allude to the fact that the thing described came from Persia). Still, most of these words are genuinely of Persian origin, many Wikipedians might not know that, and some of them may be desirious of knowing. Shall we delete the list simply because some of the entries are incorrect and not all Wikipedians care about the subject? Shall we delete it because the motives of the person who started it aren't 100% point-of-view pure? No, that would be arrogant and violate don't be a d*** policy, which you seem to endorse on your Userpage.

And as far as personal feelings go, we're supposed to maintain an NPOV in writing articles, not in creating them. People tend to contribute to articles about things they care about. I haven't made any contributions to Art Nouveau or carp because I care not a whit about them, and I know very little. I leave it to others who are more knowledgable and motivated than me to write them. Why can't deletionists do that? If you don't like this list, don't read it. I do like it, and I find it useful, and I'll bet there are many others who do as well. So don't you dare try to delete it! --Jpbrenna 23:23, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The problem is, the list isn't actually useful(except for ego-stroking) if it is riddled with errors and half-truths. At that point, you might as well simply suggest that all English words are Persian in origin. The any Iranian who wants to can tape a Persian dictionary page by page to their wall and imagine that English people use all of those words everyday, just because Persians are so great. I don't know how much of this is actually vanity, but if that is the case, or if it's here simply because someone "likes it", well, it is still false information, and should be tagged as such.

Please realize that most of these words are not used in English. If ever they are/were it is in extremely rare cases. rare enough that they would better be called"improper translations of Persian words", or something of the sort. I am a native English speaker with a fairly extensive vocabulary, and I have never heard anyone speak at least eighty percent of the words on this list. This page is lying to the readers. I am very interested in linguistics, yet disappointed in Wikipedia when I discover pages like this: just list of Persian words disguised an accurate example of etymology. I mean, why not make a list which is actually a list of actual words used in English, whose origins are actually Persian, instead of filling up hyperspace with disinformation? That would be useful.Knowon (talk) 21:18, 6 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is about being sourced and the information is sourced. The average vocabulary of a person is 5000 to 10000 words. Thus the information is sourced from reputable dictionary. --Nepaheshgar 06:26, 7 September 2008 (UTC)


Cognates[edit]

These words which were recently added do not belong here: they are only cognates (via Indo-European), not borrowings.

Brother
From Persian Baraadar
Father
From Persian Paedar (Similar to Spanish Padre)
Mother
From Persian Maadar (Similar to Spanish Madre)

Bogdan | Talk 18:09, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

But the list is full of cognates. And Arabic words borrowed by Persian that English got through Spanish...

Observation[edit]

Just an observation. Many words in Old Persian/Avestan are formed by replacing the 's' in the corresponding Sanskrit word with an 'h'. Examples:

  • Ahura - Asura
  • Homa - Soma
  • Hind - Sind
  • Namaha - Namasa

I found many more, but can't recall right now.

Not sure about the other examples, but Ahura is not borrowed from Asura. They're genuine cognates from Indo-Iranian (at least). Similarly, the Persian word for 10 dah didn't come from Sanskrit das or dáça. OTOH, Hind is indeed borrowed from the Sanskrit Sindh, meaning river. --jonsafari 14:14, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

the s-h phoneme change is a common one in Indo-Iranian. The 's' seems to be the original Indo-Iranian (and Indo-European) form, while Iranian is showing an innovation by substituting 'h'. This is regular and known (see any standard Indo-European language book such as Meier-Brugger's for a full explenation). Another innovation of Persian (but not accross the board in Iranian) is the replacement of 'd' for the Iranian 'z' (often but not always Sanskrit 'j') from Indo-Iranian '*g' (eg. Persian dast from Iranian *zasta (cf. Avestan zast-)--Khodadad 08:23, 23 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Devil[edit]

Mani1 has mass reverted the article to a ridiculous level, and the fact that he also reverted my removal of Devil from the list indicates that he was just suspicious of all my edits. There is no question that English devil is from Late Latin diabolus, in turn from Greek diabolos. In Romanian, the word is found as diavol and in Spanish diablo, etc. No authoritative linguistic reference questions this. Alexander 007 12:59, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

New article[edit]

The new article, as per what appears to be a consensus that Wikipedia should not duplicate Wiktionary, will not have a list of words but many examples can be discussed within the text rather than listed. If someone wants to see a list they can see the list in Wiktionary, Category:Persian derivations, then they can click on each individual word for an etymology. Alexander 007 15:07, 11 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

How incredibly tedious. Why would I want to make 2 clicks for every word (which, for the Wiktionary version of this page, would come out to well over 200 carefully-executed clicks), when I could read all of them on one page without any clicking at all? Nohat 06:59, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If there are not too many of them, then no problem. However, if the list becomes too long:Wiktionary. If we accept these lists, then someone should restart List of English words of Latin origin, which was deleted by consensus that there would be too many to list, and Wiktionary would be better. Alexander 007 07:00, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
So, who wants to restart List of English words of Latin origin? Nohat? Alexander 007 07:07, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Words from Latin form a substantial stock of all English vocabulary because words were borrowed from Latin into English regularly and under ordinary circumstances. The number of words in English borrowed from Latin is too large to list reasonably on a single page or set of pages. However, the number of words in English of Persian origin is finite and enumerable; words were borrowed into English from Persian only under extraordinary circumstances. Therefore it is reasonable to enumerate all the words borrowed from Persian on a single page. In all likelihood, the vast majority of such words are already on this page, and it will not likely grow much more, although it is not unreasonable to assume a few more words borrowed from Persian might be uncovered. Nohat 07:11, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I no longer oppose these lists for most languages, but I do oppose them for Latin, and probably even French and Greek. In fact, any language where a one-page listing would be much too long.Alexander 007 07:15, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I agree wholeheartedly: the French and Greek pages should be changed to be general discussions of the conditions by which words from those languages get borrowed into English, which is extensive enough to merit a discussion. On the other hand, the conditions by which words were borrowed from Persian are not very interesting, and amount to just random chance. The most interesting thing to say about words borrowed from Persian is simply to enumrate them. Nohat 07:17, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I guess with me it was more an aesthetic issue, but not everyone agrees with my aesthetics, which I was pushing onto Wiki in this case. I agree having them on one page is an advantage, so if for no other reason, these shorter lists have an excuse to be in Wikipedia. Alexander 007 07:31, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Words originally Sanskrit origin[edit]

Many words in the list are parallel borrowings from Sanskrit into Persian and Hindi -> English. Example, the word for Sugar. See also List of English words of Sanskrit origin, List of English words of Hindi origin deeptrivia (talk) 03:17, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There aren't too many modern Persian words that derive from Sanskrit. Many derive from Old Persian and some from Avestan, both of which were contemporary languages of Sanskrit, all of which come from a common Indo-Iranian branch of PIE. See the heading Observation for more discussion on this topic. --jonsafari 06:00, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, that's exactly not what I meant. The article is about English words from Persian, so probably we can leave out any words that might be derived from Avestan, etc. This is similar to having a separate List of English words of Sanskrit origin, and List of English words of Hindi origin. In case of cognates present all over the IE family, deriving from a common PIE source, it is not appropriate to say that those words are of Persian origin. E.g., it's true that modern Persian Ariya derives from Avestan, which is a contemporary of Sanskrit, but the English word Arya derives from Sanskrit word Arya. deeptrivia (talk) 06:29, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
My references also derive the English word from Sanskrit. Alexander 007 06:43, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What about words that were borrowed into Persian from Sanskrit, eg, Sugar. Sugar then went on into Arabic, so Persian is in the middle, neither was it the origin, nor the language from which the word was directly borrowed into English. Do such words belong here? deeptrivia (talk) 06:54, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've been debating that also. Orange is another example. I think they should be listed especially if: the passage through Persian is a vital part of a given word's development into an English word. Alexander 007 07:02, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Would make sense to also mention where the word is originally derived from. deeptrivia (talk) 17:11, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Of course. Alexander 007 17:13, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
At what point do we go back to? For example, the List of English words of French origin lists café, but obviously it's not ultimately from French. It could very well be in the Italian list (under a liberal definition of origin, eg. if a given language contributed somewhere along the path to bring the word into English), as well as the Turkish list, not to mention the Arabic list. In fact, very few of the words on the French list, for example, would survive your original derivation requirement. We should also take out khaki and pajamas from the Hindi list, by this same requirement. Many words wouldn't even survive on the Latin or Sanskrit list, if you want to go back as far as possible. Either all the 'words of ... origin' articles should standardize on the ultimate derivation requirement, or they should all standardize on a more liberal definition of origin. As it stands now there is an inconsistent mixture found on this page, and most other like pages (including Hindi and Sanskrit). I'm ok with either definition, as long as all the origin lists conform to a standardized definition of origin. --jonsafari 23:07, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I find two sources important. One is the immediate source, like the French sucre in the sugar example, and one the ultimate source, (Sanskrit sharkara in the sugar example.) We can list, for example, sugar in French, Arabic, Persian origin lists, but with the mention that ultimately it derives from Sanskrit. Otherwise, it will be misleading. deeptrivia (talk) 00:00, 15 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Personal names[edit]

  • Esther is included here and this goes against the norm as far as the other lists of English etymology. I think this is a valid area of study, but I'm not sure if it belongs on this exact page. Does anyone have any feelings on this or know of an existing page which would be better suited to an entry like this? Or, does anyone have a proposal for starting a new page? I don't think Persian would have enough entries to justify a whole page, but maybe in conjunction with another language(s) it would.--Hraefen 22:39, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Major re-writing[edit]

I made it only down to "c", but this article has so many mistakes or short-comings (Bactria, Caravan, etc.) that I think we better just scrap the whole thing and write it anew.

In writing these things, one should really use something besides the online sources. No one bothers with etymological dictionaries and other sources apparently. Come on! Being wiki does not mean being wacky too. If you are giving knowledge, make sure it is at least correct!--Khodadad 08:30, 23 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Origin of Algorithm is not Persian[edit]

Al-Khwarezmi was Persian, but his name, which the word algorithm is derived, is Arabic. So, I think algorithm should be deleted.

Where is your source on that? As far as I can tell, the word Khwarezm is of some central Asian origin. --jonsafari 18:07, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Khwarezm is the name of the birthplace of this Iranian scientist. Khwarezm has been part of Iran at that time and now it's in Uzbekistan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwarezm --alijsh 27 Nov 2006

Khawramieh is the name of the Persian town where the scientist came from on the Eastern front of Persia: KHOR = sun + AZ = from + MIYAA = cometh, therefore, in Persian, "where the sun comes from" or EAST. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Highlands555 (talk • contribs) 06:03, 19 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Capitalized[edit]

I have capitalized each word as per the general convention in a dictionary entry. --Bhadani 12:47, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

this list should be double checked[edit]

the word "bad" has the same meaning in both persian and english, but this as with other words does not imply it came from one or the other. the oed only goes as far as middle english, listing its appearance as after 13th century. if bad there was question, the oed would say so. are there linguists out there who can verify words on this list? --Ampersand 17:22, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Removed words[edit]

I have removed many entries from the page because they do not meet the criteria. I have copied them here and organized them by reason for deletion. If anyone can find a reliable source that shows that these words are (a) English words and (b) of demonstrably Persian origin, then I am willing to entertain putting them back in.

No Persian origin listed in OED etymology[edit]

Absinth/Absinthe
Algorithm
variant of algorism influnced by the word Arithmetic (<Middle English < Old French < Latin < Greek)
Algorism
<Middle English algorisme <Old French <Medieval Latin algorismus< Al-Khwarizmi, a Persian mathematician, named after Khwarezmia, a former state in what is now Uzbekistan
Armenia
from Persian Arman.
Arsenic
from Middle Persian zarnikh
Aubergine
from Persian بادنجان Bâdinjân itself maybe originally from Sanskrit.
Better
from "behtar" or "بهتر"
Best
from "behest" or "بهست". but "behest" comes from "behesht" or "بهشت"
bombast
from pambak "cotton".
Bronze
Perhaps ultimately from Pers. birinj "an alloy of copper (mainly) and ..." :: copper and Zinc
Cameo
from Pers. chumahan "agate."
Caviar
from Khâg-âvar ("bringer of eggs")
Cumin
from Kerman
Ghoul
from "Ghoul" or "غول"
Guitar
from ancient Greek kithara, perhaps from Persian sitaar "Three snares".
Henna
Zie.
Jasper (boy's name)
from Persian meaning "treasure master".
Jasper (stone)
from Persian Yashp
Jujube
from Pers. zayzafun meaning "soft candy with date-like flavor"
Lacquer
through Ar. lakk, from Pers. lak from Prakrit lakkhā from Sanskrit lākşā "red dye"
Mihrab
from Persian Mihr (the God Mithra)
Mummy
from Pers. mumiya "asphalt," from mum "wax."
must (n)
via Urdu mast "intoxicated, in rut," from Pers. mast, lit. "intoxicated"

Not listed in OED at all[edit]

Ahriman
from Persian Ahriman.
Ahura Mazda
from Old. Persian (Zoroastrian god)
Angra Mainyu
older version of Ahriman
Asmodeus
evil spirit, prince of demons, from L. Asmodaeus, from Gk. Asmodaios, from Talmudic Heb. Ashmeday, from Avestan (Old-Iranian) Aesh-ma-dæva, lit. "Aeshma the deceitful." Aeshma is the Zoroastrian daeva of wrath. This trait association was also passed on.
Casper
from Persian Jasper
Chador
from châdor "tent"
Cyrus
from Persian Kurosh, diminutive: Cy
Darius
Daryoosh
Darya -e- noor
Sea of light
Euphrates
O.E. Eufrate, from Gk., from Avestan (Old-Iranian) huperethuua "good to cross over," from hu- "good" + peretu- "ford."
Georgia
from Persian Gurjistan.
Julibrissin
from Gul-i Abrisham (Silk flower).
Khedive
from Pers. khidiv "prince," derivative of khuda "master, prince," from Old-Persian khvadata- "lord,"

Nohat 21:22, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So far I have gotten through J. I will continue through the rest of the alphabet.Nohat 22:21, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Khedive is listed in OED. Ellipi (talk) 23:05, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Words not of Persian origin, but themselves borrowed in Persian[edit]

Arya, Aryan
Could at best be called of Avestan origin. Came into use in English through Sanskrit.
aubergine
Sanskrit
orange
Dravidian origin
satrap
Avestan, closely related to Sanskrit kshathrapavan. kshatra = area of land, as in kshatriya, van = guardian. Okay, this one also exists in Old Persian as such.
Sugar
Sanskrit origin

etc.

Also, are we including proper nouns like Afghanistan? Then why not also include Tehran, Yazd, Ahmedinijad, etc? Also, "-stan" is a very common suffix in many laguages. Having it doesn't make a word of Persian origin. deeptrivia (talk) 05:52, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the reason these are on the list is because the Online Etymology Dictionary says they are of Persian origin. You have to remember that Indo-Iranian languages have many similarities, so it is possible that a lot of these words are present in other places too.Khosrow II 14:41, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The Online Etymology Dictionary doesn't say they are of Persian origin, but that the way from Sanskrit to English was through Persian (one of the many intermediate language the word travelled through) Examples from the dictionary:
sugar
from O.Fr. sucre -> from M.L. succarum -> from Arabic sukkar -> from Pers. shakar -> from Skt. sharkara
aubergine
Fr. --> from Catalan alberginera -> from Arabic al-badinjan "the eggplant," -> from Pers. badin-gan -> from Skt. vatin-ganah.
orange
from O.Fr. orenge -> from M.L. pomum de orenge -> from It. arancia, originally narancia (Venetian naranza) -> alt. of Ar. naranj -> from Pers. narang -> from Skt. naranga-s "orange tree,"

So, for words like these, Persian is an intermediate language (so are Arabic, Italian, French, Catalan, and so on). These cannot be called words of Persian origin. deeptrivia (talk) 17:43, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Therefore, my point is, we should have a consistent policy on this. For example, either we should include the word "Orange" in lists of all the intermediate languages, i.e., "List of English words of French origin", "List of English words of Latin origin", "List of English words of Italian origin", "List of English words of Arabic origin", "List of English words of Persian origin", and "List of English words of Sanskrit origin", or as the definition of the word "origin" suggests, include it only in the language from which the word originated. deeptrivia (talk) 21:26, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe we can convert this page to "List of words in the English language from Iranic languages". Therefore, we can compile a list of all words of the english language that origionated within Iranic/Aryan languages. This would mean adding Kurdish, Persian, Pashtu, etc... words. And then we can lable all of them. What do you think?Khosrow II 21:30, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If by Iranic you mean Indo-Iranian languages, then I think it will be far too wide a scope, covering hundreds of languages spoken by over a billion people. Perhaps a "List of words in the English language originating from Iranian languages" will be more practical. This will exclude words that are from Indo-Aryan languages, and thus the words mentioned above. deeptrivia (talk) 22:58, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Could you please not make any changes until I confer with the other Iranian wikipedians and see what we want to do collectively?Khosrow II 23:06, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, and meanwhile, take a look at List of English words of Urdu origin. Most words there are of Persian origin. In my opinion that page shouldn't even exist. Also, please look at List of English words of Hindi origin to rid that page of any such entries. deeptrivia (talk) 23:15, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You seem to be right about Orange and Sugar and aubergine.. Although I do want to do an extensive check. Arya is found in Old Persian as well and also Middle Persian as Er ..The list of Urdu words is not sound since almost all Urdu words are ultimately a mixture of Hindi(and other Indian languages) and Persian and Arabic. --alidoostzadeh 05:46, 12 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]


"Angel" should be removed. This has nothing to do with etymology at all.
It is from Merriam-Websters Dictionary and they suggested "Perhaps" and related some sanskrit and Old Persianw ords to it.. --alidoostzadeh 10:09, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't get Angel either —Preceding unsigned comment added by Highlands555 (talk • contribs) 06:21, 19 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Idries Shah the Sufi writer has said that Orange is from Naranj نارنج i.e. Na-Ranj نا - رنج meaning 'no pain' and is purely Persian. I haven't got the reference to hand but could dig it up if interested.10:22, 6 March 2021 (UTC)Wool Bridge (talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wool Bridge (talk • contribs) 10:19, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Some resources[edit]

Canal[edit]

Canal is also a Persian word. Suez canal was first finished by the Persian king Darius I and he named it canal. It's from present stem of kandan (to dig) plus suffix -âl. kan+âl. we have -âl in words like changâl, gowdâl, etc.

On the Online Etymology Dictionary, it lists canal in this sense as arising in 1673 ([1]), and coming from the Latin root canalis. Kandan might have a shared origin with canalis, as 'to dig' and 'groove' are similar enough meanings. --Tha Pyngwyn (talk) 15:15, 9 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mihrab is a Persian word[edit]

We have more words in which the suffix âb are found: sardâb, garmâbe. âb(e) means structures having concave ceiling and not water. Sardâb must be free from any trace of water or it's useless. It's older form is âv(e) that we have in the name of these cities: âvaj, sâve (se+âve).

I don't think it puts Islam in danger if we accept that it has a word from Mithraism. So let's stop coining a different etymology for this word. Seems we have forgotten that namâz is also a Zoroastrian term.

Indo European Languages[edit]

English is not an Indo European language as the article suggests, but Germanic. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.163.151.230 (talk) 04:39, 26 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Germaic is a branch of IE which English also belongs to. --alidoostzadeh 00:40, 26 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good page[edit]

Very educational article. Badagnani 00:08, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Most of these are not "English" words[edit]

As a native English speaker, I recognise only a small fraction of these words as "English". Inclusion in an English-language dictionary does not automatically make a word "English". In my view the article either needs extensive culling or it should be renamed. 86.133.245.72 (talk) 02:27, 18 November 2008 (UTC).[reply]

I'll have to agree. However, this is not because they are not common to the everyday speaker, but because many of these words do not appear in the dictionary. For example, look what happens when I type in Daftarfar in the Oxford dictionary [2].
They are in other dictionaries (Merriam Webster Classic version). You need to look at the Oxford classical dictionary for some of the other words. A good portion of the terms are from British India and are not used in common English, but can occasionally pop up in novels and books. But they are used for the British English at its own time. Just like may other English words from 200 years are not used anymore. --Nepaheshgar (talk) 14:21, 20 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afraid I just don't buy it. The fact that a word "occasionally pops up" in (English) novels or books doesn't make it "English" either. The fact is that a large number of these words are exclusively used to refer to people, articles, customs etc. in Persian-speaking areas, or other adjacent areas, and are just romanisations of the local terms. The fact that I might, in English text, refer to a French gendarme, or a Venezuelan llanero, does not mean that gendarme or llanero are "English words", any more than large numbers of the words listed here are "English words". An instructive comparison is to look at List of English words of Dutch origin, nearly all of which are "English words". 86.133.242.251 (talk) 01:45, 24 November 2008 (UTC).[reply]
Well they are sourced and are in the classical Merriam Webster's dictionary. Not all words survive in a language and become obsolete while others are recurrent. For example Pajama is currently used in the English language but Daftardar was used during the British colonization of India but now has become obsolete. Overall, this is a comprehensive list and as long as it occurs in valid dictionaries (as sourced in the article), then it is acceptable. Note again, you need the classical Oxford or unabridged Merriam-Webster to obtain some of the words that are not used but were used at one time. Also remember the average vocabulary of a person is probably 5% (if that) of that is included in a dictionary.--Nepaheshgar (talk) 02:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I note that at least one word was improperly sourced, see chakari below. --Bejnar (talk) 14:35, 15 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to do another culling of this.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 04:52, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It seems like instead of culling, this needs mining. Pick out the words that ARE in English. Proper names, variant spellings, just horrible list filled with words nobody ever uses. 76.168.4.212 (talk) 04:01, 25 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Chakari[edit]

Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged. Merriam-Webster, 2002, does not support chakari as a Persian originated word. It is true that the underlying chakar is supported as a Persian originated word; however, chakari, according to Webster's originated in Hindi. This is consistent with the practice of chakari, or attendance on a patron, which originated in Nepal. See, for example, Bista, Dor Bahadur (1994) Fatalism and development: Nepal's struggle for modernization Orient Longman, Calcutta, India, pages 89-92, ISBN 81-250-0188-3. The Oxford English Distionary, online edition, does not list chakari. Chakari, "institutionalised sycophancy", has been defined in the Nepali context as etymologically coming from 'to wait upon, to serve, or to seek favour from a god', a derived usage from chakar. Hutt, Michael (1994) Nepal in the nineties: versions of the past, visions of the future Oxford University Press, Oxford, England, page 118, ISBN 0-19-563441-1. That usage and the sense of waiting attendance upon a patron are more common in the scanty English usage that chakari sees, rather than in the sense of a domestic service. See also, Agrawal, Hem Narayan (1976) The administrative system of Nepal: from tradition to modernity‎ Vikas Publishing House, New Delhi, India, page 123, ISBN 0-7069-0395-1. I am not saying that chakari isn't a Persian word, it is just unsupported by the provided source as of Persinate origin, and such origin is undermined by other extrinsic evidence. Its English meaning appears to come from Hindi, as indicated by the provided source. --Bejnar (talk) 14:32, 15 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The article is currently a mess of falsehoods and has been for years[edit]

During the past few days somebody inserted "Betruger" into the article as a word having Persian etymology whereas no word "betruger" exists in English language, and the German word "betruger" (which means deceiver in German) has no Persian etymology. I was going to remove this item of vandalism, but then I started to review the rest of the article and I found longstanding errors all over the place. Here are some words that the article has been claiming -- since at least 15 August 2008 -- to be of Persian origin and that are not at all of Persian origin: SEER SHAME RANK NAVY CALENDER CASH CARCASS ... and that's a casually compiled and very incomplete list of the errors in the article. Somebody needs to got through the list word for word to clean up the article. But it's not going to be me. Sorry about that. Seanwal111111 (talk) 23:46, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Back in the year 2005 somebody inserted that the word Sherry (the drink) comes "from Jerez in Spain, from Pers Shiraz, from the time of Rustamid empire in Spain" whereas in truth Sherry comes from Spainish vino de Xeres "wine from Xeres," modern Jerez near Cadiz. And the town name Xeres/Jerez comes from the Latin "urbs Caesaris" (Caesar's city) and all of the etymology dictionaries say that. This tells me there hasn't been a scrupulous editor at this page since 2005. Seanwal111111 (talk) 00:08, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Persian is wrong, It's Iranic[edit]

Apart from Indic and Semitic words labelled as of Persian origin, the Persian words form not more than 5-10% of the words listed currently in the article. The guy who created this page has probably no clue about what etymology is, neither about phonological developments of Persian dialects. He probably confused Persian with Iranic, as obviously has listed Parthian, Soghdian, Avestan, Scythian and other northern Iranic words as Persian! Farso777 (talk) 22:40, 14 December 2010 (UTC) Persian is the root of "Iranic", Same as Persia becoming Iran on International maps! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.18.46.224 (talk) 01:53, 7 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Balkan is not persian[edit]

The word "Balkan" is not from persian orign,in the source "http://books.google.com.tr/books?id=-EuFwLQhvYMC&pg=PA27&dq=balkans+etymology+persian&hl=en&ei=Xgm4TqebCpSy8QORstjoBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=balkans%20etymology%20persian&f=false"

it doesn't says its persian,it says there is possibility about the words orign. please don't play with words and please don't make here persian propaganda,try to be polite,objective and polite!--88.255.183.34 (talk) 09:40, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

== Need for such article? = The tow Indo-Iranian, Avesta ( Old Persian) and Veda have little difference except for a few. Dialect differences and etymologically correlating with Indo-European roots

I had a fast review on the article and I observed most of the words are in fact place names. I do not think place names as proper names can be considered as loan words. Suppose an English cartographer is making a list over Indian villages. If he want to create English names for every village it is a century work and at the end his map or list is just garbage because no one can find a village name. He must use the current Indian names. If India has some 600 000 villages, does it mean that English has more than 600 000 Sanskrit words? There are also words which is used in very specialized subjects like in Persian literature. These, I believe ar not loan words either. I have seen many of these words in Wikipedia referring to some customs but those same words do not appear in major English dictionaries. Some other words are not Persian like kismet which is Arabic and those words which are common between Persian and Sanskrit. I am not an etymologist so I do not think it is proper to discuss those words. Are you etymologist and you have sources in one of older versions of Persian. please enlighten us. Otherwise it is a waste of time and in fact unnecessary. When you delete all these words, the remaining words which are Persians and have daily use in English are very few. Too few to be worth an article. By loan word i mean a word like "check" in English. This a word which is widely used in English and is Persian. As a Persian speaker, i believe Persian is a beautiful and great language. While the nature of the language is beautiful but it is the huge amount of high quality literature work which has made it great. By trying to put as many words in such list like this, if some people try to show the importance of Persian, they are in the wrong path.19:35, 5 March 2016 (UTC)MoghBaba (talk)

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Jockey?[edit]

The prevailing etymology seems to be that it came from Jock, but given the Persian influence on medieval Polo (the Ayyubid & Mameluk Sultans had a Jocken-dar جوكندار as a high ranking official), it seems rather a coincidence that this would be a false friend, no?--عبد المؤمن (talk) 19:52, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Old Persian script[edit]

Several words are listed as coming from an Old Persian word, which is written in the Arabic script. Old Persian was not written in the Arabic script, which hadn't been invented yet. It was written in its own cuneiform alphabet. Old Persian words should be written in the Old Persian script, with transliteration. phma (talk) 00:33, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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