Talk:Christian music

Periods missing from the article

• 33-800AD
• 1100-1650AD

The section on the 20th century could be greatly expanded.

Also, more links refering to the Jewish roots of Christianity are required.

Just a few suggestions.

Mr. Jones 11:18, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

The Expert tag was applied to this article so that an expert on these time periods would contribute to the article. I have pointed this out because I did not gather the reason for the tag without questioning the contributor who tagged the article. Royalbroil ^{Talk  Contrib} 03:37, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Artists

Perhaps someone could compile a list of Christian artists. TheSun 11:44, 21 November 2005 (EST)

Also, there are links to the Relient K page and other artists, but not mewithoutYou, who has a Wikipedia article. seldomburn 4:24, 15 May, 2007 (CST)

Creation Music Festival

• Information is needed about the West and East coast Creation Festival which is one of the biggest, if not THE biggest christian music event!
• Creation Festival

A-Z Christian Music Directories Available at:

http://www.christiammusic.org/cmp/artist

http://christianmusic.about.com/cs/artistsandbands/a/aaatozartists.htm

External links

• Link removed per Wikipedia's spam filter. Dan, the CowMan 08:18, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

This site will offer tons of information on the current Christian music scene. Artists interviews, album reviews, hot news from the CM scene.

I am failing to see a link to a general Christian lyrics website. Would anyone object from adding www.christian-lyrics.net to the list of external links? (Jdingman 23:12, 5 November 2005 (UTC))

Absolam made a minor edit but it appeared that all external links were deleted. I actually frequent the top artist list on those links. If you want to delete external links, delete the spam ones and the others that just don't belong. Don't mass delete all external links and then call your edit a minor one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaullin (talk • contribs) 13:13, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

The biggest sites in Christian music are probably from the Chik Faith network {www.christian30.com and www.cmnscoop.com), and the Salem network's Christianity Today. 130.220.153.164 (talk) 12:57, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Are there any statistics you can provided that can prove this claim? These sites don't seem very diverse in thier coverage of the topic. Absolon S. Kent (talk) 15:57, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Christian Music Lyrics

Are we changing the lyrics in today's society? These are times that are becoming truly more defined as we continue to change from a global perspective. Then why would we not understand that the words expressed through music have something more defined to say today than yesterday? Does the song, Amazing Grace stand for what was once said or still is said to be? The Jesus movement seems to be defining the words chosen in songs from yesterday. As we connect with the many artists in Christian Music, what is the truth behind the song? Will it bring that lost one to God? Will it open doors for that one that is seeking Christ and looking for further direction in their walk or yet, is God speaking to them and in turn as Christ spoke thousands of years ago reaching out to others through that one who chose to listen to music written by an Artist.

'''Controversy of music in worship'''

There is a steady debate on if musical instruments are “o.k.” in the worship. Some churches believe that praising God involves using their God given talents and skills to uplift his name. Other churches believe that bringing in musical instruments is an addition to the worship service, and is not acceptable in God’s sight. Even thought there are no scriptures in the Bible that say Thou shall not play instruments in the worship; there are no examples in the New Testament where anyone uses musical instruments to praise God. It is also generally understood that the Bible is not a collection of Thou shall and thou shall nots. There are examples of the Bible where singing (a cappella) is used to worship God. Matthew 26:30 and Mark 26:30 exemplifies that even Jesus only sung in the New Testament. Using the following scriptures as examples, some churches say that singing is the only acceptable music in worship.

1) And when they had sung a hymn, they went out into the Mt. of Olives - Matthew 26:30; Mark 14:26. 2) And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God - Acts 16:25. 3) For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name - Romans 15:9. 4) I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also - 1 Corinthians 14:15. 5) Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord - Eph 5:19. 6) Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord - Col 3:16. 7) In the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee - Heb 2:12. 8) Is any among you afflicted? Let him pray. Is any merry? Let him sing psalms - James 5:13.

This debate will continue on because both sides have great points. Praising God in both of these manners will continue on because of their own understand of the scripture and faith in God.

More to Come

I have to say (from the POV of a practising liturgical musician = see [www.stfrancischoir.com] ) that this article needs some serious attention to improve its historicity and authority. It is currently too restricted to protestant/contemporary music to be really regarded as comprehensive or authoratative. I will keep working on it. Please help. Noel 09:15, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree. This article reads more like a write-up about CCM than about Christian music in general. Needs major re-working; mebbe even a thorough and complete re-write. I don't have the time for this right now. If anyone has the time, resources (online and books) please do delve in. Also, you may wanna take a look here to jumpstart the search. I've my eye on the page. (Working on the Christian music portal, so...) Cheerio! aJCfreak yAk 22:02, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I hate to jump on the bandwagon here, but this article is poorly written and formatted. I honestly think it needs a full rewrite. It is full of POV and inaccurate information. We definately need a few SMEs to work this out. Absolon S. Kent (talk) 15:12, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

There are three articles Christian music, Contemporary Christian music and Contemporary Christian worship which all overlap. (And that's leaving aside Hymn, Hymn tune, etc.). I would suggest that all these need to be considered together, to decide what each is and is not.

Here's an initial attempt at a proposal:

1. Christian music should concentrate on giving an overview of the breadth of Christian music across the world and across the ages, but should seek to AVOID going into any depth in any of them. (Its section on CCM, for instance, should be pruned back.) Imagine it as a sort of "table of contents" with a little bit of description and brief narrative. The principal editors would have an appreciation of the breadth covered Ken and Kendrick, Matt Redman and Olivier Messiaen, Orthodox chant and Taize prayer response, etc.

2. Contemporary Christian music should be about just that: the thing commonly understood as "CCM" which is about recording artists producing material primarily for home listening. It should take care to AVOID straying too far into similar music styles in corporate worship (which is not the playing of such pre-recorded material for listening).

3. Contemporary Christian worship should concentrate on modern liturgies (e.g. Iona, Taize, "emerging church", etc.) and should probably AVOID straying into detailed music discussions.

4. To sit along side the traditional-oriented Hymn family we might need a separate 'Worship song' to discuss pop/rock styles. Both these would have a focus on how they are used in corporate worship. (There already is a 'Worship song', but currently redirects into 'Contemporary Christian worship'; I suggest that these be separated out.)

How about that for a start?

Feline Hymnic (talk) 23:01, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I've just adjusted the lead sentence to try to set the long-historical and wide-geographical scopes to this article. Feline Hymnic (talk) 20:12, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Proposed WikiProjects merger?

I've noticed that there are several independent WikiProjects related to Christian music all with very small memberships (or at least only a few active participants). I would like to propose to the WikiProject the possible merger of these projects into one WikiProject (probably entitled Christian music WikiProject with task forces for each genre (Contemporary Christian music, Southern Gospel, urban contemporary gospel, etc.). The other option is to make Christian music as a whole a task force under the Christianity Wikiproject. Please share your thoughts on this issue on the discussion page on the Christian music portal. Absolon S. Kent (talk) 19:49, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

January 8, 2008 Revisions and edits

I took a stab at revising the article to give it a more neutral tone and to bring it more in line with the other Wikipedia music genre articles. I found it too difficult to manage the history section without dealing with the POV issues so I deleted it. The thought is that the specific Christian music genre and subgenre pages can handle the issue of history. I was not sure on the genre and subgenre groupings so let me explain my rational so no feelings are hurt...most of the items I listed as genre are actually how music is marketed in mainstream (except those I didn't know...I left those in to be moved at a later time). The subgenres are more of niche markets and types. Those that were left were place in the live performance section (basically because all genres may appear in these forms). If nothing else I hope these edits will help spark attention for this important article. BTW for those who want to join the discussion the new Christian music WikiProject is now active. Absolon S. Kent (talk) 15:48, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

External links: advertising?

The external links section of the current version at present is an invitation for every commercial venture to advertise themselves, which is clear contravention of Wikipedia principles. Indeed the "News and Information" and "Music reviews" subsections are already just that. Can we agree that all links should be informational, not advertising? I propose removing those subsections altogether in the next few days. (In its present guise, that would leave the (good) DMOZ project as the only entry.) Seem OK? Feline Hymnic (talk) 22:41, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

I attempted a while back and there were some concerns (see discussion above). The compromise has been to agressively patrol new additions for linkspam. Absolon S. Kent (talk) 22:58, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Adding External Link - Source One Television

May I sugget adding a link to Source One Television (www.SourceOneTV.com). Source One TV is a Christian music news program. Thank you.

--Pmatadeen (talk) 00:09, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Oppose - The link is not content-relevant. Per WP:NOT#LINK and WP:NOT#ADVERTISING I oppose. Absolon S. Kent (talk) 13:21, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Hot Worship

An anon user added a link to www.hotworship.com. The claim is that this site is a directory of worship sites, live online worship, blogs, podcasts, etc. I'm not sure it meets the test for external links. Would love other opinions before it is readded. Absolon S. Kent (talk) 13:04, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Deleted section

The below text has been under constant edit since it's addition to the article. I'm moving it here so that the constant changes can be worked out before it is placed back in the article. -- Absolon S. Kent (talk) 00:46, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

deleted text is in this subsection

The Foundations for Christian music in worship

Christian music in praise and worship has some its roots in the Old Testament of the Bible. Praise is a vital part of worship in many Christian churches offering believers the opportunity to express their joy and gratitude to God. One of the most important purposes of worship expression in the Jewish and Christian faith is to praise God.

The Book of Psalms in the Old Testament offers many chapters of praise and worship, and is often recited in various forms in both Judaism and Christianity. The Book of Psalms is comprised of five separate "books" of prayer and praise. David, who is believed to be the author of portions of the Psalms, was a harpist and composer.

On seven different occasions the phrase "make a joyful noise" is found in the King James Version of Psalms. The Book of Psalms encourages worship by clapping hands, playing various musical instruments, shouting, and singing. "O come, let us worship and bow down, let us kneel before the LORD our maker" is a passage showing a humble attitude is important in worship of God. One of the most recognized passages is Psalm 100 is its urging to "serve the LORD with gladness; come before his presence with singing." His people are to "enter his gates with thanksgiving and into his courts with praise."

Converted Pagan Influence

It was this majority populace of common Pagans that introduced art, painting, sculpture, pageant, dance and music into Christianity, as it also did with the creation of Saints., as indicated by archaeological records and art of the 3rd and 4th century, which corresponds to the time when Christians were first allowed to practice their religion without persecution ,

Comments go here

With the citations Kazuba added, this looks good to me. I have no problem with the part above the "Pagan" part. There does need to be a clarification over influences lifted by Christians from non-Christian sources and influences brought into Christianity by converts from other religions such as Greek paganism. Also, words like "populance" need to be replaced with more common, easier-to-understand words. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 00:56, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

References

Christian Music

The references to the material was at the end. I shifted some around. Maybe this will make you happy. This is not original research to anyone who studied early Christianity and Paganism in the Roman empire. I doubt if there is a Roman historian who is not aware of this material. It is old hat. It may be new to you. But it is certainly not orginal. Most people just don't dig enough. They are just not THAT interested. Read Ramsay MacMullen's studies. This is his field of expertise. You must know Christmas comes from the Pagan holidays. When Pagans became Christian's they brought what they treasured with them. If this had not occurred Christianity probably would have died out because it was too austere and lacked appeal.

Since my material is no longer here. It could have been edited by a caring person. (It is easier to destroy than create) I can only surmise my ideas and material were not welcome or thought to have any value by my critics and readers. I found this to be another interesting experiment (with men.) Thanks for being so unopinionated and open-mined about critical ancient historians and learning something new. Kazuba (talk) 02:15, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Focus on Western trends

I think the article focus more (only?) on western christian music at all. It completely ignores to explain or even mention any other musical traditions among non-western Christians. If that remains so, wouldn't it justify a renaming of the title of the article. So as to identify more correctly with the content? Knight177 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:41, 30 November 2009 (UTC).

Do you have specifics of "non-Western Christian" musical traditions? If you have good sources for them I say "Go for it! Be Bold." -- Absolon S. Kent ^(chat), 12:11, Saturday April 27, 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. The only reason no information about non-Western traditions are not discussed is that no editors have access to verifiable information on the topic. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:50, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Further, over half of the article is on "Contemporary Christian music", which already has its own article. So in the 2,000 year history and worldwide geography of Christian music, the article is way way out of balance towards this present-day, West-centric aspect. It would be good to expand is as suggested above, although that would be intensive work. But we could at least take an interim step by pruning back the CCM stuff, which would have the additional benefit of allowing the "main|CCM" template to fulfil its purpose. Thoughts? Feline Hymnic (talk) 21:22, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Christian music or hymns began in the Middle Ages and are still active in the twenty-first century today. Graduate of Princeton University and author of the book Music: An Appreciation, Roger Kamien states that the Greek, Syrian, and the Hebrew were all strong influences of the church music. He emphasizes that the music predominantly has a monophonic melody. Surprisingly, one of the first forms of music that is still popular today was the Book of Psalms. This is what the Jewish and the early Christians sang, before hymns were written. These psalms are found in our Bibles today and we continue to reference these verses as we speak and sing praises. Another type of music that was appropriate for the practice of Catholicism was the Canticle. Today Canticles are still sung as part of many liturgies in the Roman Catholic Church. These are now recognized as “Gregorian Chants,” after Pope Gregory. Kamien now introduces a new type of worship. These songs are melodies and have been set to sacred Latin text.

The “Gregorian Chants” were used very frequently, but it wasn’t long before priest and organist began to alter the style and wording of them. The complexity of the music used for Mass began to increase which resulted in liturgical organ music. Kamien writes that later as Pope Marcellus became appointed, he sought to simplify the presentation while maintaining the charm of the music. Through this process he pursued to make the words the most important part of the music, altering and simplifying the melody. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Presleywesson (talk • contribs) 04:23, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Gregorian Chants were the main style for about four hundred years (900s to 1300s) and if you extend it to include plainchant in general, for almost 1300 years. This means that your statement "it wasn't long before..." is pretty much nonsensical. Then the fact that churches didn't employ organs until the 1600s. I can't speak to how priests, who were usually illiterate in the medieval period and earlier, changed the style and wording of the music. My feeling is, it's probably not accurate either. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:44, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Christian music? Gospel music?

Why is there a Christian music article and a Gospel music article? These terms are interchangeable. And the way this article is written, it's basically about CCM - which already has its own article. So what is the point of having this article at all? (plus there are errors in it). Musdan77 (talk) 01:41, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Christian music the parent to Gospel music, contemporary Christian music, Christian rock, Christian alternative, contemporary worship music, and many other genres and sub-genres. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:21, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

So, if this article is supposed to be about the origin and history of the "parent" then that's how it should be written. But, that's not how it's written. Musdan77 (talk) 03:16, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

You're right that it's not written about the origin and history of Christian music, but who said that's what the article is about? The article is currently about the division between the genres. There is no origin section nor is there a history section. Are you volunteering to add those sections? No one has stepped forward to add them yet, otherwise I'm sure that there would be those sections. In fact, there's no mention of Gospel music either, but there could be. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:53, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

If you are going to work on this section I recommend you post your proposed changes here on the discussion page or over at the Christian music Wikiproject. Previous edits were viewed as placing one genre over others and had to be removed. A simple answer to your original question, why are there two articles, is that the original Gospel music article focused heavily on the African-American genre (urban contemporary) while the Christian music article focused on CCM. A group striped most of the Christian music-related articles including Southern Gospel, Christian metal, and the ones mentioned above, trying to show that they are all the same music, just different styles. It's been a while since the Wikiproject has made any sort of organized effort to do a cleanup, perhaps it is time to look at that again. -- Absolon S. Kent ^(chat), 15:44, Thursday December 17, 2009 (UTC)

Not fond of the new template

The topic is not highlighted in it and it's difficult to read. Also, the image is not appropriate. Anyone else notice the change? Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:51, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Christian music for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Christian music is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Christian music until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 23:12, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Christian fusion

Are there also such genres as Christian jazz, Christian reggae, Christian Eurodance, Christian techno, or others? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:C7:C201:C640:F47E:5B35:8067:73AA (talk) 15:18, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:42, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Then why don't they have pages? Why aren't they even listed on other pages? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:C7:C201:C640:C47D:5264:3626:2F26 (talk) 03:16, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

To be fair, Christian jazz is almost non-existent. I don't know that it qualifies to be considered its own genre. Most jazz players from the last fifty years who self-identify as Christian were active in the "mainstream" genre as well and so there was no need to create a separate sub-genre. There are only a few Christian reggae bands or performers and so they do not qualify. I only know of three in Christian Eurodance and they, along with the many Christian techno artists, likely identify as Christian electronic dance music today. I do not think your euqstions are earnest though. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:37, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

What do you mean? Why don't you think my questions are earnest? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:C7:C201:C640:C47D:5264:3626:2F26 (talk) 14:21, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Go into details on the subject. Why do you think these also deserve pages, or at least sections in this article? What is your concern about them? Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:36, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

I want to make sure that they actually exist and that the Christian template is missing no genres. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:C7:C201:C640:C47D:5264:3626:2F26 (talk) 00:43, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Introduction to Public Musicology

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 15 August 2022 and 9 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Megan1473 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Megan1473 (talk) 01:32, 17 January 2023 (UTC)