Talk:Cecil Calvert, 2nd Baron Baltimore

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æ[edit]

I'm seeing Cecilius rendered as "Caecilius" in several places including on the charter for the Maryland colony. Does anyone think that's wrong? Does anyone think the "ae" should be rendered with the funky æ character? help!

The use of 'ae' vs 'æ' is purely a matter of stylistic choice in Latin and French spelling. It is however not standard usage in English. Latin words and names were commonly transcribed into English by consolidating 'ae' to 'e.' Hence in British English the word 'anaesthetic' is written 'anesthetic' in American English as the spelling reform movement was less conservative in the United States than in Britain. Jm3106jr (talk) 23:36, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it is stylistic in Latin and French. It is not stylistic nor correct in English. It is appropriate to mention the alternative historic spellings, but this article is in English and the references need to be in English without the typographic ligature. BeadleB (talk) 19:11, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Name Baltimore[edit]

As I understand, the town Baltimore, Maryland comes from Caecilius calvert, 2nd Baron Baltimore. But where does the name of Baron come from? I cannot find such place in Ireland, at least. Is tehere a possible feedback to America, since the Baltic Sea is in Russian Baltiiskoye More, and in Maryland and Delaware there have been lots of newcomers from Sweden, and very probably Russia, too. Does anybody know? thanks --Höyhens 11:42, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is (or at least was when the title was created) a place in County Longford. Proteus (Talk) 12:17, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The word Baron is a title of nobility not a place name. Thus the title 2nd Baron Baltimore means that Calvert was the Second Baron of Baltimore in Ireland. The original town of Baltimore - after which the capital of Maryland is named - is located in County Cork on the southwestern Irish coast and not in County Longford. Jm3106jr (talk) 23:46, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Date of birth[edit]

I know that numerous sources list Cecil's date of birth as August 8, 1605, but Browne (page 4) has him born in 1606. Perhaps this should be mentioned in the article as well. Qblik 22:24, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Latin Phrase deleted[edit]

In the beginning paragraph after Cecil Calvert, 2nd Lord Baltimore's full title, I deleted the following sentence: "A Latin term is 'Scvto Bonae Volvntatis Tvae Coronasti Nos, 1632'." This is not a Latin version of his title, but is a text encircling the reverse side of the original colonial seal of the Province of Maryland and is still used as the Great Seal of the State of Maryland today. The Latin text encircling the seal, Scuto bonæ voluntatis tuæ coronasti nos, is from Psalm 5:12 in the Vulgate, the Latin bible. It translates as "Thou hast crowned us with the shield of thy goodwill." The founding date of the colony, 1632, completes the text. Jm3106jr (talk) 15:31, 27 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Burial Site Incorrect in Article?[edit]

This article claims the 2nd Baron is buried in the USA on city hall grounds in Baltimore. The site thepeerage.com states he is buried at St. Gile's-in-the-Fields Church, London, England, this seems more likely as he never visited Maryland. If anyone knows definitively please correct the article, it would be appreciated. Link to the "thepeerage.com" article below.

Update: This error appears to have been fixed.

http://thepeerage.com/p2615.htm#i26146 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.244.91.35 (talk) 16:50, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Roman Catholicism not official[edit]

The Province of Maryland was never officially Roman Catholic. Trinitarian Christians, including Catholics, were officially tolerated according to the Maryland Toleration Act of 1649, although the Act was temporarily rescinded in favor of Protestants between 1654-1658. Toleration lasted another 31 years until it was ended permanently during the Protestant Revolution of 1689. Roman Catholics and non-Protestants would not be fully emancipated for 87 more years in Maryland until the American Revolution of 1776. Jm3106jr (talk) 03:14, 11 November 2013 (UTC)/00:01, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Baltimore's colony in Newfoundland confusion[edit]

This section is confusing. There has been an expansion request on it since 2008. As it reads now, the father had title to a part of Newfoundland, the son got title to the entire island, but the father opposed this new title. Is this correct? It IS possible that it was because of family feuding, but it seems that the father might be happy that the family possessions had been expanded so much. Can anyone clarify this? BeadleB (talk) 19:18, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 31 December 2013[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Page moved. No opposes in full listing period. One support !vote out of the four supports (including the nominator) don't give any rationale at all, and a second one of the four uses slightly dubious logic surrounding whether "Cecilius" is an English or Latin name, but all in all it seems quite uncontroversial. (non-admin closure) — Amakuru (talk) 15:53, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Cecilius Calvert, 2nd Baron Baltimore → Cecil Calvert, 2nd Baron Baltimore – His name was Cecil. The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography [1] and the Complete Peerage [2] confirm that he was named after Robert Cecil, 1st Earl of Salisbury and not after anybody called Caecilius. Even this article says he was known as Cecil not Cecilius. Opera hat (talk) 17:14, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Survey[edit]

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

Support Jm3106jr (talk) 19:14, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support Folklore1 (talk) 16:21, 2 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. Sources generally give "Cecil". -- Necrothesp (talk) 20:22, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion[edit]

Any additional comments:

I agree in full. His name was Cecil Calvert in English, not Cecilius (or Caecilius) which is simply Cecil in Latin. Jm3106jr (talk) 19:16, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Cecil Calvert was not the first Proprietary Governor of Maryland.[edit]

Currently this entry opens with the false claim: "Cecil Calvert, 2nd Baron Baltimore (8 August 1605 – 30 November 1675), was the first Proprietor and Proprietary Governor of the Province of Maryland." But in fact the first Proprietary Governor of Maryland was Cecil's younger brother, Leonard. See for example the wikipedia entry List of colonial governors of Maryland, the Encyclopædia Britannica or the Maryland State Archives, all of which confirm that Leonard was Maryland's first Proprietary Governor. While Cecil was the Proprietor of Maryland, he never set foot there, unlike his younger brother whom he appointed as governor of his colony. I will remove the errata and cite Talk. 24.170.226.11 (talk) 01:12, 14 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Reichsgräfin"?[edit]

Why is Anne Arundell described as "Reichsgräfin von Wardour"? The additional description "daughter of Thomas Arundell, 1st Baron Arundell of Wardour" is accurate and complete and gave her no title beyond "The Hon." and certainly no claim to a title in the Holy Roman Empire. Curmudgeonly Pedant (talk) 19:40, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]